Primary training in a Hi Perf complex acft

Mxsmanic wrote:

John Mazor writes:

You didn't have that geographic qualifier when you made your
sweeping statement. It's true that a few countries are
using ab initio training to breed their own pilots, but
that's a tiny minority.

Minority or not, it proves that it can be done.

Starting and finishing in a jet airliner is a pretty good proof of concept for
primary training in a high-performance aircraft.

Uh ? Ab-initio training involves getting a PPL first anyway.

Do you think they put beginners in heavy twins to begin with ?

Graham

Eeyore writes:

Uh ? Ab-initio training involves getting a PPL first anyway.

Why can't you get that flying only large airliners from the beginning?

Also, requirements vary from one jurisdiction to another. And technically,
you can easily learn to pilot airliners from simulator experience exclusively,
without ever stepping into a real aircraft.

Do you think they put beginners in heavy twins to begin with ?

I think that in some places they put complete novices in simulators and train
them to be airline pilots in a year or less. It's entirely possible.

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In article ,
says...
Eeyore writes:

Uh ? Ab-initio training involves getting a PPL first anyway.

Why can't you get that flying only large airliners from the beginning?

Can you name any airlines anywhere on the planet that train their pilots
that way?

eg. does the USA train their fighter pilots starting off in the FA-18's
they'll fly?

--
Duncan

Dave Doe writes:

Can you name any airlines anywhere on the planet that train their pilots
that way?

Name them? No. But I know that this is the current trend. And some airlines
don't really train much at all, in the way it is understood in the USA, which
is why safety records are so dismal outside the developed world.

eg. does the USA train their fighter pilots starting off in the FA-18's
they'll fly?

I don't know. I'm not interested in military aircraft. They obviously could,
although flying the real aircraft is expensive (and dangerous, for a low-time
pilot). Simulation is an option, but it's hard to simulate all the possible
movements of a fighter aircraft. I presume that early training is done on
cheaper aircraft, or in simulators.

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Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Dave Doe writes:

Can you name any airlines anywhere on the planet that train their
pilots that way?

Name them? No. But I know that this is the current trend.

No, it isn't fjukkwit.



Bertie

Bertie,

No, it isn't fjukkwit.


Can you please just go away? Your retarded behaviour is rather
pathetic.

Amazing how many people can be way more annoying than MX as a reaction
to him.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Thomas Borchert wrote in
:

Bertie,

No, it isn't fjukkwit.


Can you please just go away? Your retarded behaviour is rather
pathetic.

Amazing how many people can be way more annoying than MX as a reaction
to him.


Don't know how to use a killfile?


Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote:

Eeyore writes:

Uh ? Ab-initio training involves getting a PPL first anyway.

Why can't you get that flying only large airliners from the beginning?

PPLs don't apply to such aircraft.


Also, requirements vary from one jurisdiction to another. And technically,
you can easily learn to pilot airliners from simulator experience exclusively,
without ever stepping into a real aircraft.

Is that what you think ?

In actual fact you may be right that's it's enirely possible but basic piloting
skills are deemed an essential ingedient of the package.


Do you think they put beginners in heavy twins to begin with ?

I think that in some places they put complete novices in simulators and train
them to be airline pilots in a year or less. It's entirely possible.

It's not how it's done.

Graham

Eeyore writes:

PPLs don't apply to such aircraft.

Oh ... so you don't need a PPL to fly a 747?

Is that what you think ?

When it comes to airliners, I am _certain_ of it.

In actual fact you may be right that's it's enirely possible but basic piloting
skills are deemed an essential ingedient of the package.

They are deemed essential by regulatory fiat, but in reality, they aren't
essential at all. At least not the "skills" one learns in tin cans and other
aircraft besides the target type of aircraft.

It's not how it's done.

Not in the USA. But it can be done. Apparently some places are doing it. It
makes economic sense.

Anyway, I think it has been fairly well established here that you can do all
your training in a high-performance aircraft, if you wish. I don't see why
that aircraft could not be a jet airliner, if the price is right. Or is there
some regulatory barrier to starting and finishing exclusively in, say, a 737?

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Mxsmanic wrote:

Eeyore writes:

PPLs don't apply to such aircraft.

Oh ... so you don't need a PPL to fly a 747?

How do you think you get the hours to progress to CPL ? You have to have a CPL before
ATPL etc.... How about the night, multi-engine and instrument ratings ?


Is that what you think ?

When it comes to airliners, I am _certain_ of it.

But you're an idiot !


In actual fact you may be right that's it's enirely possible but basic piloting
skills are deemed an essential ingedient of the package.

They are deemed essential by regulatory fiat, but in reality, they aren't
essential at all. At least not the "skills" one learns in tin cans and other
aircraft besides the target type of aircraft.

Those basic skills are what saves aircraft when things go wrong.


It's not how it's done.

Not in the USA. But it can be done. Apparently some places are doing it. It
makes economic sense.

Anyway, I think it has been fairly well established here

Where ?


that you can do all your training in a high-performance aircraft, if you wish.

What do you mean by high-performance ?


I don't see why that aircraft could not be a jet airliner, if the price is right.
Or is there some regulatory barrier to starting and finishing exclusively in, say,
a 737?

Yes.

For one thing you can't start by flying multi-engined aircraft. I suggest you kill
the engine(s) on one side whilst simulating a landing for example.

Graham