Primary training in a Hi Perf complex acft

Eeyore writes:

Eh ?

Exactly.

Doctors can't perform surgery on simulated human beings, at least not yet.
Therefore the first surgery is a "revenue flight": a real surgical procedure
on a real person, not a practice run. This is quite unlike many forms of
aviation, which can be practiced in simulation, or even in real aircraft on
practice flights (with no passengers, and thus "non-revenue").

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:

Eeyore writes:

Eh ?

Exactly.

Doctors can't perform surgery on simulated human beings

How about addressing the point I was 'Eh'ing about....

" There is no equivalent to flying a non-revenue flight for
practice, which is a major flaw in your analogy. "

Graham

Eeyore writes:

How about addressing the point I was 'Eh'ing about....

I did.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote:

Eeyore writes:

How about addressing the point I was 'Eh'ing about....

I did.

No you didn't.

There is no equivalent to flying a non-revenue flight for
practice, which is a major flaw in your analogy.

Eeyore,

I did.

No you didn't.


No offense, but please do us all a favor and stop arguing with the
village idiot. This is so reminiscent of Monty Python's argument clinic
;-)

It was vaguely interesting to see you go through exactly all the phases
many here went through months ago when the idiot first appeared here -
but it is kind of tiring to see new people engage him again and again
only to end up at this point. Any "discussion" with the idiot is
fruitless, a waste of bandwidth and an increase of noise in a
newsgroups where the SNR isn't very good to begin with. And all it will
do in the end is keep him here. Let him leave just like he left the
groups he came from: travel groups, breast-feeding groups, photography
groups, gamer groups. Yes, he has really messed in all those in exactly
the same way he is doing his stupid act here. Ignore him. Please.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Thomas Borchert wrote:

Eeyore,

I did.

No you didn't.


No offense, but please do us all a favor and stop arguing with the
village idiot. This is so reminiscent of Monty Python's argument clinic
;-)

You noticed ? ;~)


It was vaguely interesting to see you go through exactly all the phases
many here went through months ago when the idiot first appeared here -
but it is kind of tiring to see new people engage him again and again
only to end up at this point. Any "discussion" with the idiot is
fruitless, a waste of bandwidth and an increase of noise in a
newsgroups where the SNR isn't very good to begin with. And all it will
do in the end is keep him here. Let him leave just like he left the
groups he came from: travel groups, breast-feeding groups, photography
groups, gamer groups. Yes, he has really messed in all those in exactly
the same way he is doing his stupid act here. Ignore him. Please.

I've got the picture.

He's in the same league as habshi and Archimedes Plutonium (see the sci. groups)
.. All are irredeemably stupid.

Graham

On 26 Mar, 13:06, Eeyore
wrote:
Thomas Borchert wrote:
Eeyore,

I did.

No you didn't.

No offense, but please do us all a favor and stop arguing with the
village idiot. This is so reminiscent of Monty Python's argument clinic
;-)

You noticed ? ;~)

It was vaguely interesting to see you go through exactly all the phases
many here went through months ago when the idiot first appeared here -
but it is kind of tiring to see new people engage him again and again
only to end up at this point. Any "discussion" with the idiot is
fruitless, a waste of bandwidth and an increase of noise in a
newsgroups where the SNR isn't very good to begin with. And all it will
do in the end is keep him here. Let him leave just like he left the
groups he came from: travel groups, breast-feeding groups, photography
groups, gamer groups. Yes, he has really messed in all those in exactly
the same way he is doing his stupid act here. Ignore him. Please.

I've got the picture.

He's in the same league as habshi and Archimedes Plutonium (see the sci. groups)
. All are irredeemably stupid.


Bwawhwhahwhahwhahhwhahwhahwhahhw!

Says the wannabve pilot planespotter..



bertie

Eeyore wrote in
:



Mxsmanic wrote:

Eeyore writes:

How about addressing the point I was 'Eh'ing about....

I did.

No you didn't.

It's like watching two doped up lemmings fight over the latest theories
in quantum physiscs by throwong great big piles of urine soaked potato
chips at each other.


(let the imagery settle, I worked hard on this one)


Bertie

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Eeyore writes:

Eh ?

Exactly.

Doctors can't perform surgery on simulated human beings,
at least not yet.

Wrong again. That's been around for years.

http://www.golimbs.com/offer_index.p...FSBhgQodyC2pRA

http://www.haptica.com/

They're sophisticated enough to provide force feedback:

http://www.ercim.org/publication/Erc...elingette.html

They even have their own expositions:

http://www.surgery.arizona.edu/expo/...ulatorExpo.htm

which specifically compares them to flight simulators.

And to anticipate one of your dodges, medical sims don't
replace the basic training and experience. They just allow
a mid-level practitioner who has reached sufficient state of
competence to progress toward the higher level of expertise
that is required for a given procedure.

In other words, even you might make hundreds of runs through
a procedure simulator and finally get it right, but that
doesn't make you a qualified surgeon nor does it qualify you
to say that "surgery is easy". There's a lot more to being
a surgeon than just being able to complete some sim runs.

Therefore the first surgery is a "revenue flight": a real
surgical procedure
on a real person, not a practice run. This is quite
unlike many forms of
aviation, which can be practiced in simulation, or even in
real aircraft on
practice flights (with no passengers, and thus
"non-revenue").

Wrong again. Demonstrably so. QED.

"John Mazor" wrote

In other words, even you might make hundreds of runs through
a procedure simulator and finally get it right, but that
doesn't make you a qualified surgeon nor does it qualify you
to say that "surgery is easy". There's a lot more to being
a surgeon than just being able to complete some sim runs.

That, in my opinion, is one of the major points that he fails to
appreciate - that you have to be able to get it right when it matters. It
is not possible to have a proper appreciation for any of this with no real
world experience - doing it right when it matters in real life is nothing
like being able to do it in a sim while sitting safely and comfortably in
front of your PC. We are, after all, human beings, not machines.

Athletes face this type of human performance factor all the time - it is
much easier to perform flawlessly in practice when nothing is on the line
than it is to do so when in an actual competition.

BDS