Near miss from space junk.

In article ,
says...
chris writes:

Whenever I fly on instruments on a sim it seems different to when I
did it for my license - the aircraft just continually seems to be
moving left or right or whatever, which meant a moment looking away
from my scan and when you look back the damn thing seems to be leaning
over... I had so much trouble just keeping it upright without getting
the leans that I imagine several years and no practise later I would
have even more trouble.

I had the same thing happen in the sim today; you just have to keep your eye
on the instruments. If there's nothing to see outside the window, there's no
reason _not_ to keep your eye on the instruments.

If you lose visual reference it's damn easy to get the leans, as I
found out when I did my PPL IF training

Leans or not, your instruments will tell you if you are in level flight.
Perhaps animals cannot ignore their intincts, but people can.

If I were to spin you round and round in your seat for a minute (I'm
sure there'd be no shortage of volunteers - and then get you to stand
up and walk twenty feet in a straight line. Can you do it?

If not, wny not? - you can *see* what you're meant to do!

Anyway, point is (given you try that) you now know what a real pilot
experiences (this false inner ear vertigo thing).

You've *never* experienced it in yer simulator.

And PS: how's your flying on a limited panel (no A/H in particular)?

--
Duncan

Dave Doe writes:

If I were to spin you round and round in your seat for a minute (I'm
sure there'd be no shortage of volunteers - and then get you to stand
up and walk twenty feet in a straight line. Can you do it?

If I have an instrument that shows me how to walk straight, yes.

But in reality, aircraft do not spin round and round for minutes at a time
just because they are in clouds.

If not, wny not? - you can *see* what you're meant to do!

A better experiment would be to see if I could _steer_ straight after a spin.
When you fly an aircraft, you move controls--you don't actually walk (which is
a much more complex activity). It's almost impossible to walk with disturbed
equilibrium, because the primary source of information--even with extensive
visual cues--is the inner ear. This is not true of instrument flight, where
the primary source of information is instruments, and a disturbance in
equilibrium, which disorienting, is not an absolute obstacle to maintaining
control.

It's a bit like the difference between being dizzy in a chair and being dizzy
while standing.

And PS: how's your flying on a limited panel (no A/H in particular)?

I haven't tried it.

--
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Mxsmanic wrote:

If I were to spin you round and round in your seat for a minute (I'm
sure there'd be no shortage of volunteers - and then get you to stand
up and walk twenty feet in a straight line. Can you do it?

If I have an instrument that shows me how to walk straight, yes.

I call bull**** on this one. No you can't. Yes you do have an instrument
that shows you how to walk straight: your eyeballs (we won't do the
experiment in the dark at first) looking at, say, the road or the walls
around you or other fixed objects of your choice. An NO, emphatically,
you won't be able to walk straight, or even stand up. There are actually
neat and fun devices designed to do just that: spin you around and around
for a while (there was one at Beale AFB where I did the high altitude
training, I am sure you can find something similar elsewhere)

But in reality, aircraft do not spin round and round for minutes at a time
just because they are in clouds.

Not minutes at a time, but HOURS at a time depending on how long
the flight in the clouds lasts. Not quite spinning like the fun training
device I was mentioning, but the effect is just as good; better actually.

--Sylvain

Sylvain writes:

I call bull**** on this one. No you can't. Yes you do have an instrument
that shows you how to walk straight: your eyeballs (we won't do the
experiment in the dark at first) looking at, say, the road or the walls
around you or other fixed objects of your choice. An NO, emphatically,
you won't be able to walk straight, or even stand up. There are actually
neat and fun devices designed to do just that: spin you around and around
for a while (there was one at Beale AFB where I did the high altitude
training, I am sure you can find something similar elsewhere)

You're probably right. I guess that rules out piloting an aircraft in an
unbraced standing position, then.

Not minutes at a time, but HOURS at a time depending on how long
the flight in the clouds lasts. Not quite spinning like the fun training
device I was mentioning, but the effect is just as good; better actually.

But you don't have to walk in an aircraft.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Sylvain writes:

I call bull**** on this one. No you can't. Yes you do have an
instrument
that shows you how to walk straight: your eyeballs (we won't do the
experiment in the dark at first) looking at, say, the road or the walls
around you or other fixed objects of your choice. An NO, emphatically,
you won't be able to walk straight, or even stand up. There are
actually
neat and fun devices designed to do just that: spin you around and
around
for a while (there was one at Beale AFB where I did the high altitude
training, I am sure you can find something similar elsewhere)

You're probably right. I guess that rules out piloting an aircraft in an
unbraced standing position, then.

Not minutes at a time, but HOURS at a time depending on how long
the flight in the clouds lasts. Not quite spinning like the fun training
device I was mentioning, but the effect is just as good; better
actually.

But you don't have to walk in an aircraft.


Take your meds and get back to flying your desk.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Not minutes at a time, but HOURS at a time depending on how long
the flight in the clouds lasts. Not quite spinning like the fun
training device I was mentioning, but the effect is just as good;
better actually.

But you don't have to walk in an aircraft.

So if you are spun around in a chair you won't be equally disoriented?

Judah writes:

So if you are spun around in a chair you won't be equally disoriented?

The disorientation is less important if you are sitting.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Judah writes:

So if you are spun around in a chair you won't be equally disoriented?

The disorientation is less important if you are sitting.

If what you are sitting in isn't mobile.

"Sylvain" wrote in message
t...
Mxsmanic wrote:

If I were to spin you round and round in your seat for a minute (I'm
sure there'd be no shortage of volunteers - and then get you to stand
up and walk twenty feet in a straight line. Can you do it?

If I have an instrument that shows me how to walk straight, yes.

I call bull**** on this one. No you can't. Yes you do have an instrument
that shows you how to walk straight: your eyeballs (we won't do the
experiment in the dark at first) looking at, say, the road or the walls
around you or other fixed objects of your choice. An NO, emphatically,
you won't be able to walk straight, or even stand up. There are actually
neat and fun devices designed to do just that: spin you around and around
for a while (there was one at Beale AFB where I did the high altitude
training, I am sure you can find something similar elsewhere)

But in reality, aircraft do not spin round and round for minutes at a
time
just because they are in clouds.

Not minutes at a time, but HOURS at a time depending on how long
the flight in the clouds lasts. Not quite spinning like the fun training
device I was mentioning, but the effect is just as good; better
actually.


Feel free to call bull**** on all his posts, including the one's you haven't
wasted time reading. You will still be right 99% of the time or better.

All his attendance on this post is proving, is that he still doesn't get it.
No matter what he has read, either here or anywhere else on disorientation,
he can't even understand the concept. Even with a dozen or so people, trying
to explain it a dozen different ways, his is just simply no capable of
understanding it.

Really magnifiys his ignorance on his ability to learn to fly an aircraft
through simulation doesn't it.

On Apr 5, 6:04 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Dave Doe writes:
If I were to spin you round and round in your seat for a minute (I'm
sure there'd be no shortage of volunteers - and then get you to stand
up and walk twenty feet in a straight line. Can you do it?

If I have an instrument that shows me how to walk straight, yes.

But in reality, aircraft do not spin round and round for minutes at a time
just because they are in clouds.

If not, wny not? - you can *see* what you're meant to do!

A better experiment would be to see if I could _steer_ straight after a spin.
When you fly an aircraft, you move controls--you don't actually walk (which is
a much more complex activity). It's almost impossible to walk with disturbed
equilibrium, because the primary source of information--even with extensive
visual cues--is the inner ear. This is not true of instrument flight, where
the primary source of information is instruments, and a disturbance in
equilibrium, which disorienting, is not an absolute obstacle to maintaining
control.

It's a bit like the difference between being dizzy in a chair and being dizzy
while standing.

And PS: how's your flying on a limited panel (no A/H in particular)?

I haven't tried it.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

Now you're just being a cock..