Why The Hell... (random rant)

d.g.s. writes:

Irrelevant. You are just a name on a screen. You are not a human
being, and nobody is to regard you as one, or treat you with any form
of respect. Nobody is obliged to care why you're here, and nobody is
obliged to discuss things on your terms. This is what you just agreed
to, above.

I tell you what: Since you are either unwilling or unable to discuss anything
except me, and you seem equally unable to resist replying along those lines,
I'll stop it for you.

--
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d.g.s. writes:

You're just a name on a screen. Why should anyone care how you find
this, or what you think of anything?

Nobody should. They should simply be interested in and willing to discuss
aviation, in accordance with the purpose of the newsgroup.

Are you willing and able to do that, or are you only interested in me? In teh
former case, the current topic is the reason(s) for using magnetic headings in
aviation, and, by extension, the utility and/or advisability of continuing to
do so. (I started a similar thread long ago, but since many people seem to be
more interested in me than in the topic, it degenerated quickly.)

--
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On 4/5/2007 10:24 PM Mxsmanic jumped down, turned around, and wrote:

d.g.s. writes:

No, you aren't. If this was so, you would do nothing but discuss
aviation, and you wouldn't respond to anything else.

It takes two to discuss aviation, and when most of the replies are from people
like yourself who cannot overcome their personal fascination with me, aviation
tends to fall by the wayside.

You are also responding to me and posting nothing about aviation. Thus,
you are incapable of overcoming your fascination with me.

However, I'm happy to discuss aviation, if I
can find anyone willing to do so.

You can't. You have repeatedly been unable to find anyone willing to do
so. Are you insane?

Would you like to discuss the thread topic? Do you know anything about it?

I am uninterested in discussing what I know about aviation with you.

In addition, you wouldn't conflate flying airplanes with a piddly-ass Microsoft
flight simulation program, and pretend that they are the same thing.

Both of these are aviation-related, unlike your diatribe.

And your response here *is* aviation-related?
--
dgs

On 4/5/2007 10:26 PM Mxsmanic jumped down, turned around, and wrote:

d.g.s. writes:

Irrelevant. You are just a name on a screen. You are not a human
being, and nobody is to regard you as one, or treat you with any form
of respect. Nobody is obliged to care why you're here, and nobody is
obliged to discuss things on your terms. This is what you just agreed
to, above.

I tell you what: Since you are either unwilling or unable to discuss anything
except me, and you seem equally unable to resist replying along those lines,
I'll stop it for you.

Will you? How do you propose to stop me from posting?
--
dgs

On 4/5/2007 10:26 PM Mxsmanic jumped down, turned around, and wrote:

I tell you what: Since you are either unwilling or unable to discuss anything
except me, and you seem equally unable to resist replying along those lines,
I'll stop it for you.

Is this another example of how you follow the Golden Rule?
--
dgs

On 4/5/2007 11:43 AM Mxsmanic jumped down, turned around, and wrote:

dgs writes:

So, when he attempts to label people as stupid (even if only by
implication), or treat others as if they're idiots, remember, he's
actually proposing that he be treated as if he's stupid too. At least
it's consistent.

No. When I give honest assessments of something or someone, I expect others
to do the same.

And others do just that. It has been demonstrated here repeatedly.
--
dgs

On 4/5/2007 10:27 PM Mxsmanic jumped down, turned around, and wrote:

d.g.s. writes:

You're just a name on a screen. Why should anyone care how you find
this, or what you think of anything?

Nobody should.

And nobody does.

They should simply be interested in and willing to discuss
aviation, in accordance with the purpose of the newsgroup.

Irrelevant. What people choose to be interested in doing in this
newsgroup is entirely up to them. Got a problem with that?
--
dgs

On 4/5/2007 10:26 PM Mxsmanic jumped down, turned around, and wrote:

I'll stop it

If only that were true.

Run away, Anthony, run away and hide! Pretend you're a "real" pilot on
your widdle simulator program on your widdle PC!
--
dgs

"Mxsmanic" wrote

It changes at a variable rate, and once it approaches a degree, charts and
navaids have to change. It's a tremendous amount of extra work, an
additional
source of error, and an imprecise and fickle basis for navigation.


I came to aviation from boats. In that field of navigation, in my part of
the world we mostly use true north as reference, but I've seen charts using
magnetic north, e.g. in the Caribbean where the magnetic variation is
considerable (around 15 degrees). Also, all boat GPSes can be set to show
either true or magnetic north, so using magnetic north is obviously a viable
method also at sea. So, let me give some arguments why using magnetic north
on aviation charts is not as stupid as it may sound.

1. A GPS does not show a reliable heading unless the aircraft is moving
(unless the GPS is of a very advanced type with dual antennas, not widely
used in aircraft). Before every takeoff the DG needs to be set, and the
magnetic compass enables this also when the aircraft is stationary.

2. The extra work referred to by Mx above is the same as would otherwise
have to be done in-flight in each aircraft, adding to the crew's workload
and introducing many possibilities for errors. (Mariners actually do this
en-route, but they have much more time to do the calculations than pilots
have.) For aviation, it's safer to do the calculations and corresponding
changes to charts and navaid data at a central source where they can be
quality-controlled much more extensively than what the co-pilot can do in an
aircraft in-flight. Charts need to be updated frequently anyway, regardless
of changes in magnetic variation, so it's not a big deal.

3. Even though electronic or inertial systems would allow navigation without
any reference to magnetic north, making the above mentioned calculations
unnecessary, experience and tradition so far points to the conclusion that a
magnetic compass and the corresponding magnetic designations on charts are
still useful. Note that when the magnetic compass is most critically needed,
i.e. in case of a failure of the electronic navigation systems, that's also
the time when the pilots have least time and opportunity to perform the
extra calculations that would be required if the chart data were given in
true north.

4. The magnetic compass system gives a simple foolproof method to ensure the
aircraft is lined up on the correct runway, anywhere in the world. Last
August, 49 real people died at KLEX in an accident that might have been
prevented by this simple check.

5. Omitting the magnetic compass would make the aircraft totally dependent
on external sources for all navigation other than chart-based VFR (unless it
has an inertial navigation system, which is obviously a much more expensive
solution viable only for large aircaft). This is so far not considered
acceptable.

Snowbird writes:

I came to aviation from boats. In that field of navigation, in my part of
the world we mostly use true north as reference, but I've seen charts using
magnetic north, e.g. in the Caribbean where the magnetic variation is
considerable (around 15 degrees). Also, all boat GPSes can be set to show
either true or magnetic north, so using magnetic north is obviously a viable
method also at sea.

Just out of curiosity, what are the usual navigation methods for boats and
ships these days? I suppose at sea you don't really have any equivalent of
VORs, so that's not an option, although I seem to recall that Loran and
(formerly) Omega were developed specifically for ships at sea (as well as GPS,
in part). It sounds like you don't navigate much with a magnetic compass.
And how do you find your way around with charts when you have no landmarks?

--
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