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#1
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Snowbird writes:
Please elaborate what that higher standard is and how you claim to achieve it. I've already explained it. I want all instruments to work, not just those on the MEL. As a minimum, I will expect you never to have broken anything on those simulated planes you fly. That minimum is satisfied. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#2
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![]() "Mxsmanic" wrote .. As a minimum, I will expect you never to have broken anything on those simulated planes you fly. That minimum is satisfied. Including simulated damage? |
#3
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Snowbird writes:
Including simulated damage? No, I've had damage before. I thought you meant instrument failure. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#4
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![]() "Mxsmanic" wrote in message ... Snowbird writes: Including simulated damage? No, I've had damage before. I thought you meant instrument failure. Realy, what happened. Pizza grease on the yoke, spilled milk in the keyboard? |
#5
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Maxwell writes:
Realy, what happened. Pizza grease on the yoke, spilled milk in the keyboard? I've damaged gear before with particularly rough landings. On at least one occasion I damaged the flap mechanism, which caused one of the flaps to extende improperly with full flaps, giving the aircraft a strong tendency to roll. That took me a while to figure out. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#6
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![]() "Mxsmanic" wrote .. Including simulated damage? No, I've had damage before. I thought you meant instrument failure. Thank you. The reason I press this issue is because aviation safety is serious business. Claiming to have a high safety standard based on simulator flying only, is in my opinion close to nonsense. Why? Because the sim pilot does not run the risk of getting hurt if things go bad. The objective when training a pilot to be a safe airliner captain is not only mastering the buttons and switches, but also to achieve those skills without breaking any airplane parts in the process. Therefore actual flying training is so good. It teaches the student in the most realistic way the consequences of not yet having the required skills - with a Flight Instructor always there to keep the situation safe and coach the student on how to progress towards his goal to become a pilot. That mental attitude - grasping the consequences of a pilot failure - is one of the most important traits of a safe pilot. Ugh, I've spoken ;-) |
#7
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Snowbird writes:
Thank you. The reason I press this issue is because aviation safety is serious business. Claiming to have a high safety standard based on simulator flying only, is in my opinion close to nonsense. I don't see why that would make any difference. Why? Because the sim pilot does not run the risk of getting hurt if things go bad. People with a good attitude towards safety don't need to be motivated by the risk of getting hurt. Indeed, if the only way to make someone conscientious about safety is to put him into a situation where he is at immediate and obvious risk, then there is a problem with his attitude. Most people run into dangerous situations because they behaved in unsafe ways when there is _not_ any obvious risk of harm. Since they are motivated only by obvious, immediate risk, any time that they do not perceive such a risk, they disregard safety. This is how motorcycle riders crush their skulls by not wearing a helmet. They don't see an immediate, obvious risk to not wearing a helmet, so they don't put one on. Then, when the risk actually becomes significant, they are unprepared. Most people will put on a helmet if they know that they're about to hit a brick wall. The difficulty is in getting people to put on helmets even when they aren't in any immediate and obvious danger. Thus, a pilot who is motivated to be safe only by a risk of accident or injury is not fundamentally a safe pilot. The safe pilot takes precautions irrespective of any obvious risk. It teaches the student in the most realistic way the consequences of not yet having the required skills - with a Flight Instructor always there to keep the situation safe and coach the student on how to progress towards his goal to become a pilot. If a flight instructor is there, it's not realistic. The risk is not any greater than in a simulator, since the instructor can save the day. People in that situation are motivated by a desire for approval from the instructor, not by any real risk. The problem there is that they may not behave safely when the instructor is not around to correct them, especially if they've never been motivated in any other way. That mental attitude - grasping the consequences of a pilot failure - is one of the most important traits of a safe pilot. Everyone can grasp the consequences when the risk is immediate and obvious. Many people cannot when the risk is more remote. And this is true even for trained pilots, which is why so many trained pilots still crash due to a lack of caution and concern for safety. In summary, if you only learn about safety when you are threatened with immediate harmful consequences, you haven't really learned about safety. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
#8
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![]() "Mxsmanic" wrote in message ... When it comes to BS, I think you have reached your weekly high point. That had to be at least a triple flutter blast. Nothing is too easy for the person that will never have to actually do it. |
#9
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![]() "Mxsmanic" wrote .. Snowbird writes: Thank you. The reason I press this issue is because aviation safety is serious business. Claiming to have a high safety standard based on simulator flying only, is in my opinion close to nonsense. I don't see why that would make any difference. It's explained in the next paragraph. Why? Because the sim pilot does not run the risk of getting hurt if things go bad. People with a good attitude towards safety don't need to be motivated by the risk of getting hurt. Indeed, if the only way to make someone conscientious about safety is to put him into a situation where he is at immediate and obvious risk, then there is a problem with his attitude. In my experience, some pilot students do not have the right attitude when they start. That concerns especially those who have a lot of MS flight sim time and consider themselves already very proficient. Most people run into dangerous situations because they behaved in unsafe ways when there is _not_ any obvious risk of harm. Since they are motivated only by obvious, immediate risk, any time that they do not perceive such a risk, they disregard safety. So therefore risk areas are demonstrated during training, so they can be percieved and avoided in the future. This is how motorcycle riders crush their skulls by not wearing a helmet. They don't see an immediate, obvious risk to not wearing a helmet, so they don't put one on. Then, when the risk actually becomes significant, they are unprepared. Most people will put on a helmet if they know that they're about to hit a brick wall. The difficulty is in getting people to put on helmets even when they aren't in any immediate and obvious danger.´ I doubt a motorcycle safety expert would agree bikers don't see the risks of not wearing a helmet. Seeing risks is different from taking risks. Thus, a pilot who is motivated to be safe only by a risk of accident or injury is not fundamentally a safe pilot. The safe pilot takes precautions irrespective of any obvious risk. Those precautions include training to improve the perception of non-obvious risks. It teaches the student in the most realistic way the consequences of not yet having the required skills - with a Flight Instructor always there to keep the situation safe and coach the student on how to progress towards his goal to become a pilot. If a flight instructor is there, it's not realistic. The risk is not any greater than in a simulator, since the instructor can save the day. People in that situation are motivated by a desire for approval from the instructor, not by any real risk. The problem there is that they may not behave safely when the instructor is not around to correct them, especially if they've never been motivated in any other way. The problem is that the simulator can not ruin the day. That mental attitude - grasping the consequences of a pilot failure - is one of the most important traits of a safe pilot. Everyone can grasp the consequences when the risk is immediate and obvious. Many people cannot when the risk is more remote. And this is true even for trained pilots, which is why so many trained pilots still crash due to a lack of caution and concern for safety. Simulators, especially simple one-screen variants, tend to make the risk perception even more remote, so they are not a general solution. In summary, if you only learn about safety when you are threatened with immediate harmful consequences, you haven't really learned about safety. Safety is a part of most every subject of pilot training, it's not limited to flight training. You have to pass all subjects to get the license. |
#10
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Snowbird writes:
In my experience, some pilot students do not have the right attitude when they start. That concerns especially those who have a lot of MS flight sim time and consider themselves already very proficient. What's wrong with their attitude? So therefore risk areas are demonstrated during training, so they can be percieved and avoided in the future. Anyone who has studied carefully, even on the ground, already knows what most of the risks are. And a prudent person will be trying to avoid those risks even at the start of instruction. Indeed, some students might have to be convinced that the risks are not so great as they believe, just to get them to fly. There are other people who are excited by risk. Pointing the risks out to them only excites them more, and makes them more determined to push the envelope in order to feel the thrill of risk. These people make bad pilots. I imagine an instructor can recognize the type. However, it's perfectly possible for an instructor to have this problem himself, in which case he may be a danger to himself and his students. I doubt a motorcycle safety expert would agree bikers don't see the risks of not wearing a helmet. Seeing risks is different from taking risks. Some people truly do not see risks. They are unable to see long-term consequences to their actions. They perceive and act upon only immediate, obvious risks. Part of this is personality; a lot of it is correlated with general intelligence (that is, stupid people take more risks). Also, testosterone encourages this type of behavior, which is why it is more common among men than women. Riders who don't wear helmets may be fully aware of the risks and yet willing to take them ... but in most cases they think the risks magically do not apply to them, or they vastly underestimate the risk because it isn't constantly staring them in the face. These riders often select themselves out of the gene pool, but not before they've reproduced, unfortunately. Those precautions include training to improve the perception of non-obvious risks. That can make some pilots more cautious; and it may induce others to seek greater thrills. Not everyone reacts to a perception of risk with precaution. You might teach one pilot about spins and spin recovery, and he will forever thereafter be extraordinarily prudent, carefully avoiding any situation that might lead to a spin, even if he knows that it might be recoverable. He's that way because of natural caution and risk avoidance. But another pilot might be a thrillseeker: he might be more excited by the immediate and obvious risk of spins than by the safety appeal of avoiding them. And so he will continue to take risks, and perhaps even increase his risk out of a conscious or unconscious thrillseeking element in his personality. Some people are happier when they are safe; others are happier when they are in danger. The second type shouldn't be flying outside of the military. The problem is that the simulator can not ruin the day. That's not a problem for people who are already cautious and good at avoiding risk. It is sufficient to point out a risk to them, and they will avoid it. They may enjoy simulator work precisely because of the lower risk. Those who consider simulators boring and long for the thrill of risk in a real aircraft are the ones to watch carefully. There are many attractions to aviation, but when risk is the foremost among them, there's a problem. Simulators, especially simple one-screen variants, tend to make the risk perception even more remote, so they are not a general solution. The perception of risk depends on the person, not the environment. Some people will perceive and avoid risks entirely on their own. Others will not perceive risks even when they confront them directly. Still others perceive the risks and seek them out. The actual environment you use to teach them really doesn't matter much. Safety is a part of most every subject of pilot training, it's not limited to flight training. You have to pass all subjects to get the license. Getting the license and being a safe pilot are two entirely different things. -- Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail. |
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