President of our local EAA chapter killed in inaugural flight

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 13:21:47 -0400, "Morgans" wrote:

Two, why the HELL where there two people on board? Regulations do not allow
a passenger on the first 25 or 50 hours, depending on the assigned test
period.

Regulations state that no one but required crew be aboard. Some people put a
second person aboard to "monitor the engine and other systems to allow the pilot
to concentrate on controlling the aircraft" and thus claim the second person is
"required crew." I personally don't agree with it, and IIRC, the FAA has
specifically come out denying it, but it does happen.

Ron Wanttaja

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote

Regulations state that no one but required crew be aboard. Some people
put a
second person aboard to "monitor the engine and other systems to allow the
pilot
to concentrate on controlling the aircraft" and thus claim the second
person is
"required crew." I personally don't agree with it, and IIRC, the FAA has
specifically come out denying it, but it does happen.

But how does it happen? I'll bet if they told the FAA that they were going
to have a two person required crew, the FAA would say, "The hell you are!"

I recall the same thing about the FAA ruling, that there was no
justification to having two people aboard in the testing phase.

To say two people are required in the plane, would be to say that it would
require two to fly the plane, always, as in some of the older biz jets.

Most of the newer biz jets do not have to have a two person flight crew, I
believe. If you can fly a .8 mach jet with one person, you surely do not
need two pilots to fly a Lancair.
--
Jim in NC

On Sun, 15 Apr 2007 17:12:57 -0400, "Morgans" wrote:


"Ron Wanttaja" wrote

Regulations state that no one but required crew be aboard. Some people
put a second person aboard to "monitor the engine and other systems
to allow the pilot to concentrate on controlling the aircraft" and
thus claim the second person is "required crew." I personally don't
agree with it, and IIRC, the FAA has specifically come out denying it,
but it does happen.

But how does it happen? I'll bet if they told the FAA that they were going
to have a two person required crew, the FAA would say, "The hell you are!"

Simple: They just don't tell the FAA. There's no requirement for an FAA
representative to be there for the first flight. What they don't know, they
can't stop.

I looked at my accident database for the years 1998-2004. During that time
period, there were about 75 accidents on the first flight of a homebuilt. Four
of them had multiple persons aboard. About one in ten accidents that occurred
during the first 40 flight hours had more than one person aboard (although some
aircraft do have shorter test periods).

Ron Wanttaja

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote

Simple: They just don't tell the FAA. There's no requirement for an FAA
representative to be there for the first flight. What they don't know,
they
can't stop.

Right. The sad part is, as president of an EAA chapter, he knew better, and
decided that the rules didn't apply to him.

It makes me mad. Incidents like this give us all a black eye.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:



Right. The sad part is, as president of an EAA chapter, he knew better, and
decided that the rules didn't apply to him.

It makes me mad. Incidents like this give us all a black eye.


I disagree. It gives EAA types a black eye.

On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 17:38:52 -0600, Newps wrote
in :



Morgans wrote:



Right. The sad part is, as president of an EAA chapter, he knew better, and
decided that the rules didn't apply to him.

It makes me mad. Incidents like this give us all a black eye.


I disagree. It gives EAA types a black eye.

I agree with you, but in the eyes of the lay public, it affects all
airmen.

Morgans wrote:

Ron Wanttaja wrote

Simple: They just don't tell the FAA. There's no requirement for an FAA
representative to be there for the first flight. What they don't know,
they can't stop.

Right. The sad part is, as president of an EAA chapter, he knew better, and
decided that the rules didn't apply to him.

It makes me mad. Incidents like this give us all a black eye.

We don't know the facts. From:

http://tinyurl.com/2yy7k

(An EAA Members Only web page):

"If there is a situation where the builder has a specific need for
additional crew in the aircraft during the fight test period, FAA
Advisory Circular AC 20-27E, CERTIFICATION AND OPERATION OF
AMATEUR-BUILT AIRCRAFT, offers the following advice:

“If an additional crew member is required for a particular test
function, that requirement should be specified in the application
program letter for the airworthiness certificate and listed in the
operating limitations by the FAA.”

The FAA will review each application on a case-by-case basis, and may
allow additional crew if they feel there is sufficient justification."


So, while unlikely, it is possible that this person got permission
from the FAA and had written into his op-limits that he could have a
2nd crewmember.

Personally, I'm very against this practice and always caution against
it (having done the first flight in my plane solo), but he MIGHT have
had permission, in which case there's no "black eye", or disobeying
the rules.

--
Marc J. Zeitlin
http://www.cozybuilders.org/
Copyright (c) 2007

"Marc J. Zeitlin" wrote

We don't know the facts. From:

http://tinyurl.com/2yy7k

So, while unlikely, it is possible that this person got permission
from the FAA and had written into his op-limits that he could have a 2nd
crewmember.

If it is show that he did have permission to take a second person, I will
make a public apology, on this forum.

I doubt that he did, also.
--
Jim in NC