Question to Mxmanic

Mxsmanic wrote:

Not without descending. The wake _must_ descend. This means that you cannot
catch it unless you descend, also. If you can explain how this rule can be
broken, I'm listening.


Nope. If you've completed a 360 turn, and you're at the same altitude
(within a few feet), you wil go over it. The first time you do it
yourself (not your smartass CFI that can just do it as if it were easy)
it's pretty great. Kind of like running over a dog in a car, not hard
like a speed bump, but soft and squishy.

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

You do a 360 and run into a bump when, and only when, you complete
the 360.

Or you run into bumps but only notice the one that you hit when you complete
the 360.

Yeah, sure.

The first time it happened to me was early in training when I was
very aware of every little bump or noise from the airplane.

As I was rolling out of the turn there was a ka-bump and my startled
reaction was a loud "What the hell was that?" which amused the
instuctor to no end.

Just because you have never experienced it and can't understand it
from your many hours of playing the Flight Simulator game doesn't
mean it doesn't exist.

It just means you don't know a whole lot about real flying or what
happens in a real airplane.

Have you ever done a short field take off in your Flight Simulator
Cessna with the springy gear and had the mains vibrate for a few
seconds shaking the airplane? It is disconserting as hell for a
low time student ready to chop power and abort take off at any
sign of a problem. Again, the instructor was amused.

--
Jim Pennino

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writes:

Just because you have never experienced it and can't understand it
from your many hours of playing the Flight Simulator game doesn't
mean it doesn't exist.

My study of aerodynamics thus far indicates that it is impossible, unless you
descend to catch your descending wake. Wakes _always_ descend. It's a
consequence of the mechanism that produces the lift that sustains the
aircraft, and it's unavoidable. Every source that I have consulted points
this out, without exception. Your mere assertion to the contrary is
completely unpersuasive in comparison.

It just means you don't know a whole lot about real flying or what
happens in a real airplane.

No, it means that I look at the facts, and I don't depend on the legends.

Have you ever done a short field take off in your Flight Simulator
Cessna with the springy gear and had the mains vibrate for a few
seconds shaking the airplane?

I don't fly the Cessna, and I fly only at airports with hard, smooth runways
that won't bounce the aircraft around.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
writes:

Just because you have never experienced it and can't understand it
from your many hours of playing the Flight Simulator game doesn't
mean it doesn't exist.

My study of aerodynamics thus far indicates that it is impossible, unless
you
descend to catch your descending wake. Wakes _always_ descend. It's a
consequence of the mechanism that produces the lift that sustains the
aircraft, and it's unavoidable. Every source that I have consulted points
this out, without exception. Your mere assertion to the contrary is
completely unpersuasive in comparison.

It just means you don't know a whole lot about real flying or what
happens in a real airplane.

No, it means that I look at the facts, and I don't depend on the legends.

Have you ever done a short field take off in your Flight Simulator
Cessna with the springy gear and had the mains vibrate for a few
seconds shaking the airplane?

I don't fly the Cessna, and I fly only at airports with hard, smooth
runways
that won't bounce the aircraft around.


No your haven't. You have never flown anything but your desk, and regardless
of your medications, it never left the floor.

Mxsmanic wrote:
My study of aerodynamics thus far indicates that it is impossible, unless you
descend to catch your descending wake. Wakes _always_ descend.
SNIP
Still fixated on the idea that the downwash is the only component of
wake, huh, Anthony?

No, it means that I look at the facts, and I don't depend on the legends.
SNIP
No, it means that you look at SOME of the facts, and then draw incorrect
conclusions from limited information.

Rip

In rec.aviation.piloting Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:

Just because you have never experienced it and can't understand it
from your many hours of playing the Flight Simulator game doesn't
mean it doesn't exist.

My study of aerodynamics thus far indicates that it is impossible, unless you
descend to catch your descending wake. Wakes _always_ descend. It's a
consequence of the mechanism that produces the lift that sustains the
aircraft, and it's unavoidable. Every source that I have consulted points
this out, without exception. Your mere assertion to the contrary is
completely unpersuasive in comparison.

Then obviously your study of aerodynamics thus far is incomplete as
it can not explain what really happens in real life to real pilots.

Theory is confirmed or invalidated by experiment.

Your theories are invalidated by years of experiments, i.e. actual
pilots flying actual airplanes.

It just means you don't know a whole lot about real flying or what
happens in a real airplane.

No, it means that I look at the facts, and I don't depend on the legends.

So now your are reduced to the semantic arguement that the experiences
of thousands of pilots for many, many years are but a legend?

Have you ever done a short field take off in your Flight Simulator
Cessna with the springy gear and had the mains vibrate for a few
seconds shaking the airplane?

I don't fly the Cessna, and I fly only at airports with hard, smooth runways
that won't bounce the aircraft around.

Yet another statement that only goes to show a Microsoft flying game
is not an accurate representation of what happens in real airplanes.

The surface of the runway has nothing to do with the effect mentioned
and a whole lot with the maneuver performed.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Apr 16, 11:00 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
writes:
Just because you have never experienced it and can't understand it
from your many hours of playing the Flight Simulator game doesn't
mean it doesn't exist.

My study of aerodynamics thus far indicates that it is impossible, unless you
descend to catch your descending wake. Wakes _always_ descend. It's a
consequence of the mechanism that produces the lift that sustains the
aircraft, and it's unavoidable. Every source that I have consulted points
this out, without exception. Your mere assertion to the contrary is
completely unpersuasive in comparison.


My only comment on this subject - I'm not going to bother arguing
about it, as 1) according to the aerodynamics, it definitely IS
possible to fly through your own wake turbulence in steep turns, and
2) like most people who have actually done steep turns in a real plane
in calm air, I've done it.

Tip vortices (the major part of wake turbulence) extend outward and a
fair distance UPWARD from the wingtip. As well, since the plane is
banked in a turn in the described situation, the vortices descend at a
much slower rate than they would for S&L flight. A simple search will
reveal several NASA and other studies with graphics and photos
depicting an aircraft flying through smoke and the resulting tip
vortices. One of the photos that is in a few studies shows a small Ag
plane, with the upward spiral of the tip vortices reaching 2-3 times
the height of the aircraft, and outward from the wing by half a
wingspan, near the ground. As ground effect decreases the vortices,
at altitude they can be larger.


It just means you don't know a whole lot about real flying or what
happens in a real airplane.

No, it means that I look at the facts, and I don't depend on the legends.

Then you haven't found all of the facts.

Have you ever done a short field take off in your Flight Simulator
Cessna with the springy gear and had the mains vibrate for a few
seconds shaking the airplane?

I don't fly the Cessna, and I fly only at airports with hard, smooth runways
that won't bounce the aircraft around.

Planes bounce just fine on hard, smooth runways - ask any pre-solo
student.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.

I don't fly the Cessna, and I fly only at airports with hard, smooth
runways that won't bounce the aircraft around.


You don't fly at all


bertie