TSA rule, what does this mean?

On Apr 17, 9:45 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Apr 17, 8:58 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
As a TSA approved foreign flight training provider, I received the
follow from the TSA today...

"Who must participate in the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP)?

Persons seeking flight training must submit a request if they are
not citizens or nationals of the U.S. and:

---They wish to receive flight training in the U.S. or its
territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
certificate or type rating; and/or

---They wish to receive flight training from an FAA-certificated
facility, provider, or instructor that could lead to an FAA rating
whether in the U.S. or abroad."

The updated text can be viewed at the Provider Frequently Asked
Questions page atwww.flightschoolcandidates.gov/provider_faq.htm.

If you need further assistance, please contact or
call (571) 227-4544."

Anyone understand what this means? The second part sounds like what
we've always believed. However, what does the first part mean? Does
it imply that someone receiving training from a non-CFI must be TSA
approved even if they are not seeking a rating?? Why is it both
"and" and "or"? I guess I'm having trouble with the intent.

-Robert

The "and/or" is ass covering. The "regardless" part first covers
somebody coming to you for say a BFR or aerobatics, neither will
lead to an FAA certificate or type rating.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But if their intention is to require TSA approval for everything
(which is not the current understanding), why have the second part as
well?

-Robert

You are trying to apply logic to the writings of government. Shame on you.

But let's say you are a US certified CFI. The second graph says you can't go
to Iran and teach people to fly unless they are OK'd by the TSA even if the
Iranian government pays you to.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If that is true, its a very major change in understanding. The current
understanding is that only certain ratings require TSA approval. Other
things (tailwheel endorsements, BFR, etc) do not require TSA approval.
The first part seems to change this and say any U.S. based CFI cannot
provide **ANY** training (recurrent or otherwise) to a non-TSA
approved student. This is a major change. Now I need to see your
passport in order to do an FBO check out (training not leading to a
rating).

-Robert

On Apr 17, 10:02 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:
On Apr 17, 9:45 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:



Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Apr 17, 8:58 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
As a TSA approved foreign flight training provider, I received the
follow from the TSA today...

"Who must participate in the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP)?

Persons seeking flight training must submit a request if they are
not citizens or nationals of the U.S. and:

---They wish to receive flight training in the U.S. or its
territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
certificate or type rating; and/or

---They wish to receive flight training from an FAA-certificated
facility, provider, or instructor that could lead to an FAA rating
whether in the U.S. or abroad."

The updated text can be viewed at the Provider Frequently Asked
Questions page atwww.flightschoolcandidates.gov/provider_faq.htm.

If you need further assistance, please contact or
call (571) 227-4544."

Anyone understand what this means? The second part sounds like what
we've always believed. However, what does the first part mean? Does
it imply that someone receiving training from a non-CFI must be TSA
approved even if they are not seeking a rating?? Why is it both
"and" and "or"? I guess I'm having trouble with the intent.

-Robert

The "and/or" is ass covering. The "regardless" part first covers
somebody coming to you for say a BFR or aerobatics, neither will
lead to an FAA certificate or type rating.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But if their intention is to require TSA approval for everything
(which is not the current understanding), why have the second part as
well?

-Robert

You are trying to apply logic to the writings of government. Shame on you.

But let's say you are a US certified CFI. The second graph says you can't go
to Iran and teach people to fly unless they are OK'd by the TSA even if the
Iranian government pays you to.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If that is true, its a very major change in understanding. The current
understanding is that only certain ratings require TSA approval. Other
things (tailwheel endorsements, BFR, etc) do not require TSA approval.
The first part seems to change this and say any U.S. based CFI cannot
provide **ANY** training (recurrent or otherwise) to a non-TSA
approved student. This is a major change. Now I need to see your
passport in order to do an FBO check out (training not leading to a
rating).

No, the first part only says a US based CFI can't
provide any training while inside the US.

First paragraph - no training of any kind inside the US
or its territories.

Second paragraph - no training anywhere
in the world if the training would lead to a FAA
rating.


It sounds like, between these two paragraphs,
it restricts US based instructors from giving
training to non-approved students unless
the training happens abroad, and doesn't lead
to a FAA rating.

On Apr 17, 10:48 am, wrote:
On Apr 17, 10:02 am, "Robert M. Gary" wrote:





On Apr 17, 9:45 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:

Robert M. Gary wrote:
On Apr 17, 8:58 am, "Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net
wrote:
Robert M. Gary wrote:
As a TSA approved foreign flight training provider, I received the
follow from the TSA today...

"Who must participate in the Alien Flight Student Program (AFSP)?

Persons seeking flight training must submit a request if they are
not citizens or nationals of the U.S. and:

---They wish to receive flight training in the U.S. or its
territories, regardless of whether training will lead to an FAA
certificate or type rating; and/or

---They wish to receive flight training from an FAA-certificated
facility, provider, or instructor that could lead to an FAA rating
whether in the U.S. or abroad."

The updated text can be viewed at the Provider Frequently Asked
Questions page atwww.flightschoolcandidates.gov/provider_faq.htm.

If you need further assistance, please contact or
call (571) 227-4544."

Anyone understand what this means? The second part sounds like what
we've always believed. However, what does the first part mean? Does
it imply that someone receiving training from a non-CFI must be TSA
approved even if they are not seeking a rating?? Why is it both
"and" and "or"? I guess I'm having trouble with the intent.

-Robert

The "and/or" is ass covering. The "regardless" part first covers
somebody coming to you for say a BFR or aerobatics, neither will
lead to an FAA certificate or type rating.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

But if their intention is to require TSA approval for everything
(which is not the current understanding), why have the second part as
well?

-Robert

You are trying to apply logic to the writings of government. Shame on you.

But let's say you are a US certified CFI. The second graph says you can't go
to Iran and teach people to fly unless they are OK'd by the TSA even if the
Iranian government pays you to.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If that is true, its a very major change in understanding. The current
understanding is that only certain ratings require TSA approval. Other
things (tailwheel endorsements, BFR, etc) do not require TSA approval.
The first part seems to change this and say any U.S. based CFI cannot
provide **ANY** training (recurrent or otherwise) to a non-TSA
approved student. This is a major change. Now I need to see your
passport in order to do an FBO check out (training not leading to a
rating).

No, the first part only says a US based CFI can't
provide any training while inside the US.

First paragraph - no training of any kind inside the US
or its territories.

RIght, so when you show up for your FBO checkout or BFR you must bring
your passport to prove that you do not need TSA approval. Now pilots
need to bring their passport before flying with any CFI for any
reason.

-robert