City controlled airspace?

On 2007-04-18 12:13:51 -0700, Dallas said:

On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:49:32 -0700, C J Campbell wrote:

people who are trying to get some sleep don't appreciate it when you
are going WOWwowWOWwowWOWwow with the King Air at 2am.

Somehow it's not ok to run your engine up, but acceptable to taxi forward
another 50 feet onto the runway and firewall it?

:-)

Few people will notice a quick run-up on a piston single. The jets and
turboprops don't do a run-up for every flight anyway. If you think you
need to do it then, consider the airport closed during those hours.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

Dallas wrote:
Somehow it's not ok to run your engine up, but acceptable to taxi forward
another 50 feet onto the runway and firewall it?

The real issue here is extended ground runups for maintenance. Extended
full-power turbojet runups at 2am make the neighbors much, much sadder
than anything a piston engine is going to produce. (Barring, maybe, a
C185 with a long two-bladed prop on a full-power takeoff. Yeeeeouch!)

On Apr 18, 8:34 am, Dallas wrote:
I stumbled upon the Aircraft and Airports section of the Dallas City Codes
and found a whole new layer of regulations I never knew about.

Here's a good one. As a student, I guess I need to call my instructor
every time I need to start the engine:

SEC. 5-24. ONLY PILOT OR COMPETENT MECHANIC TO RUN ENGINE.
No person shall start or run aircraft engine other than a licensed pilot or
a competent mechanic in the cockpit attending the controls. (Ord. Nos.
8213; 14384)

You have a student pilot certificate, don't you? There's no such thing
as a "licensed pilot," but a solo student pilot is properly
certificated to fly an airplane.

SEC. 5-36. FLYING AT LOW ALTITUDE; PERMITS FOR LANDING PLACES.
No person shall fly any aircraft over the city at a lower altitude than
2500 feet from the surface of the earth

Unenforcible. Only the FAA has authority over aircraft in flight.

ZikZak wrote:
You have a student pilot certificate, don't you? There's no such thing
as a "licensed pilot," but a solo student pilot is properly
certificated to fly an airplane.

I know it's cool and all to say we have a certificate and not a license but
even the FAA says "license" may places on their website. Here's an example.

Replace an Airman Certificate (License)

On 2007-04-18 09:58:31 -0700, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net said:

ZikZak wrote:
You have a student pilot certificate, don't you? There's no such thing
as a "licensed pilot," but a solo student pilot is properly
certificated to fly an airplane.

I know it's cool and all to say we have a certificate and not a license but
even the FAA says "license" may places on their website. Here's an example.

Replace an Airman Certificate (License)

The people who insist on "certificate" are harking back to the days
before the FAA issued them. Originally, airman certificates were issued
by flying clubs. There was no FAA in those days.

Now that the government issues the certificate and reserves the right
to take it away, it represents a license. It is the same thing, no
matter how much the pack howls. Most of these guys could stand to look
in a dictionary and see what the difference between a license and a
certicate is. If you want to get picky about it, a certificate
represents a license to fly. That license can be revoked, whether you
retain physical possession of the certificate or not.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

C J Campbell wrote
The people who insist on "certificate" are harking back to the days
before the FAA issued them. Originally, airman certificates were
issued by flying clubs. There was no FAA in those days.

CJ, I have copied the following from a series of emails between myself
and one of the editors of the AVWEB newsletter......

I can understand the idiots at the local TV station constantly referring
to
"pilot's licenses", but how did supposedly "aviation savvy" writers for
AVWEB mistake a certificate for a license in the lead article pertaining
to medical certificate fraud?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A little journalistic license, Bob, as approved by the FAA.
Check it out under the Airman Registry subhed in the link provided
below.
It now appears that license is the preferred term and (certificate) is
bracketed : ie less used... http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A quick call to the FAA confirms that there has been no change and that,
just like the newscasters, the webmaster has inserted his own slant on
the subject.
Since the page seems to be intended for the general public, the
webmaster probably felt that they would understand license better than
certificate.

However............from Wikipedia

A license (American English) or licence (Commonwealth English) is a
document or agreement giving permission to do something.

A certificate is an official document affirming some fact.
A certificate may also certify that a person has received specific
education or has passed a test.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is this little bit of freedom granted to citizens of the United
States of America that makes the difference between license and
certificate.

United State Code TITLE 49 - TRANSPORTATION
Sec. 40103. Sovereignty and use of airspace
(2) A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit
through the navigable airspace.

No further granting of permission (license) is required, however, a
demonstration
of training or ability (certification) may be required. Note the
ultralight Part 103 exception to the certificate requirement.

There is no such federal code granting a citizen the right to operate a
vehicle on public roads, or to practice medicine, therefore allowing the
government to require a license.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
My response from the FAA webmaster

Subject
Has the FAA really switched "pilot certificate" to "pilot license" as is
indi...

Discussion Thread
Response (FAA Expert) 07/22/2005 03:51 PM
It's a web error. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We are
in the process
of restructuring our entire web site. I have initiated action to correct
this page to reflect "pilot certificate" and "mechanic certificates."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would you mind if I wrote about this for Monday, Bob?

Write away Russ....just bear in mind that I'll be checking each and
every word. :-) :-)

What started out as just a gentle chide to the AVWEB editor turned out
to taking-on the FAA, something that I've done many times in the past.
I've been in this flyingbusiness for 47 years and have learned that the
FAA probably makes more mistakes than I do. Getting them to admit it as
easily as happened Friday came as quite a shock to me. My first call
was to the local (Tampa) FSDO and what a waste that was.
A simple yes or no question and after a five minute dissertation, I
still did not have a firm answer.

My name since leaving Naval Aviation and joining PanAm in 1967 has been
"Bob (It's a certificate not a license) Moore". The basic indoctrination
course at PanAm taught us a lot about aviation law and history. At 72
years of age, I am still an active Flight Instructor. I instructed for
three years in the Navy, probably ten years in the airline industry and
six years in the GA business and one thing that I learned early-on from
my students was to very carefully weigh each and every word that I
uttered for accuracy. This is much more important for those who would
commit words to paper, or nowadays,to the internet. :-)

BTW, that little bit of Federal Code had its origins in the Air Commerce
Act of 1926. Just try discussing that with your friendly local FDSO
inspector! :-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Bob (IACNAL) Moore

On 18 Apr 2007 23:01:49 GMT, Bob Moore
wrote in 28:

C J Campbell wrote
The people who insist on "certificate" are harking back to the days
before the FAA issued them. Originally, airman certificates were
issued by flying clubs. There was no FAA in those days.

CJ, I have copied the following from a series of emails between myself
and one of the editors of the AVWEB newsletter......

I can understand the idiots at the local TV station constantly referring
to
"pilot's licenses", but how did supposedly "aviation savvy" writers for
AVWEB mistake a certificate for a license in the lead article pertaining
to medical certificate fraud?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A little journalistic license, Bob, as approved by the FAA.
Check it out under the Airman Registry subhed in the link provided
below.
It now appears that license is the preferred term and (certificate) is
bracketed : ie less used... http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
A quick call to the FAA confirms that there has been no change and that,
just like the newscasters, the webmaster has inserted his own slant on
the subject.
Since the page seems to be intended for the general public, the
webmaster probably felt that they would understand license better than
certificate.

However............from Wikipedia

A license (American English) or licence (Commonwealth English) is a
document or agreement giving permission to do something.

A certificate is an official document affirming some fact.
A certificate may also certify that a person has received specific
education or has passed a test.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
It is this little bit of freedom granted to citizens of the United
States of America that makes the difference between license and
certificate.

United State Code TITLE 49 - TRANSPORTATION
Sec. 40103. Sovereignty and use of airspace
(2) A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit
through the navigable airspace.

No further granting of permission (license) is required, however, a
demonstration
of training or ability (certification) may be required. Note the
ultralight Part 103 exception to the certificate requirement.

There is no such federal code granting a citizen the right to operate a
vehicle on public roads, or to practice medicine, therefore allowing the
government to require a license.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
My response from the FAA webmaster

Subject
Has the FAA really switched "pilot certificate" to "pilot license" as is
indi...

Discussion Thread
Response (FAA Expert) 07/22/2005 03:51 PM
It's a web error. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. We are
in the process
of restructuring our entire web site. I have initiated action to correct
this page to reflect "pilot certificate" and "mechanic certificates."
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Would you mind if I wrote about this for Monday, Bob?

Write away Russ....just bear in mind that I'll be checking each and
every word. :-) :-)

What started out as just a gentle chide to the AVWEB editor turned out
to taking-on the FAA, something that I've done many times in the past.
I've been in this flyingbusiness for 47 years and have learned that the
FAA probably makes more mistakes than I do. Getting them to admit it as
easily as happened Friday came as quite a shock to me. My first call
was to the local (Tampa) FSDO and what a waste that was.
A simple yes or no question and after a five minute dissertation, I
still did not have a firm answer.

My name since leaving Naval Aviation and joining PanAm in 1967 has been
"Bob (It's a certificate not a license) Moore". The basic indoctrination
course at PanAm taught us a lot about aviation law and history. At 72
years of age, I am still an active Flight Instructor. I instructed for
three years in the Navy, probably ten years in the airline industry and
six years in the GA business and one thing that I learned early-on from
my students was to very carefully weigh each and every word that I
uttered for accuracy. This is much more important for those who would
commit words to paper, or nowadays,to the internet. :-)

BTW, that little bit of Federal Code had its origins in the Air Commerce
Act of 1926. Just try discussing that with your friendly local FDSO
inspector! :-)
------------------------------------------------------------------------


Bob (IACNAL) Moore

Many thanks for the research, and your setting the uninformed
straight.

On 18 Apr 2007 23:01:49 GMT, Bob Moore wrote:

United State Code TITLE 49 - TRANSPORTATION
Sec. 40103. Sovereignty and use of airspace
(2) A citizen of the United States has a public right of transit
through the navigable airspace. No further granting of
permission (license) is required, however, a
demonstration of training or ability (certification) may be required.

So every citizen of the United States has a license to fly, you're just not
allowed to do it without a certificate?


--
Dallas

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
news:200704181408187826-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...


It is the same thing, no matter how much the pack howls.

In much the same way that flying VFR over a layer of clouds is VFR on top,
no matter how much the pack howls.

In much the same way that flying VFR over a layer of clouds is VFR on top,
no matter how much the pack howls.

"Over the top", your (IFR) clearance is over.
"On top", your clearance is on.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.