ATC question

"Steve Foley" wrote in message
...

You don't happen to know the requirements to be considered as a candidate
for Class D airspace, do you?


Yes, but there is no fixed traffic count threshold for Class D like there is
for Class C, if that's what you're looking for.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Steve Foley" wrote in message
...

You don't happen to know the requirements to be considered as a candidate
for Class D airspace, do you?


Yes, but there is no fixed traffic count threshold for Class D like there
is for Class C, if that's what you're looking for.

Yup. That's what I was looking for. Thanks for the reply.

C J Campbell wrote:
Everyone has a bad day, I guess, but it seems, from the number of
complaints here, that Reading has more bad days than good ones. Tough.

I learned to fly near there and did my long solo cross-country into
Reading in 1994 or so. Damned unpleasant experience, but everyone
afterwards said "oh, yeah, Reading is like that". (Actually, that was
about the nicest thing I heard; most of it was unprintable.) They've
been getting complaints for years, but "cranky and unhelpful" seems to be
within the realm of acceptable behavior.

On 2007-04-18 04:51:32 -0700, "Steven P. McNicoll"
said:

On Apr 18, 2:11 am, C J Campbell
wrote:

One of the real problems with Class D towers that have these radar
repeaters is that some controllers get to staring at the TV instead of
looking out the window. Not all planes show up on the radar very well.
I have heard from some of the more opinionated old-timers that the
Class D towers would be better off and do a better job without the
approach radar. I would not go that far, but they seem to have a point.


Radar repeaters? Reading tower does not have a radar feed from a
nearby site that was established to serve another airport. The
Reading ASR is on the east side of Reading Municipal Airport.

Ah. I was confused by what one of the other posters said.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On 2007-04-18 03:45:54 -0700, Matt Whiting said:

C J Campbell wrote:

I remember a time that a pilot contacted Tacoma Narrows tower to inform
them that he was going to overfly the airspace. Tower rather gruffly
told him to contact Seattle approach, because although he was in TIW's
class D space, they had an operating agreement with Seattle that anyone
above a certain altitude (but below the overlying B) that Seattle would
handle that traffic. The pilot replied, "Oh, sorry. I didn't have a
copy of the operating agreement here in the AF/D." The tower controller
was testy the rest of the afternoon. This was the same tower controller
that was paying so little attention to what was going on that he had
two airplanes touch down on the runway simultaneously -- and didn't
know it, despite having cleared both to land. Fortunately, they didn't
hit each other. He is no longer there. (The reason the planes did not
hit each other was one was flown by a student pilot -- missed the
center line and landed on the right side of the runway and somewhat
short. The other was flown by an airline pilot -- he also could not hit
the center line with a small plane and landed left and long. They
didn't see each other until after they touched down.)

I'm always amazed when I hear things like this. I listen to all radio
traffic when flying, not just calls to me. If I hear another airplane
cleared to land on the same runway as me at the same time, I don't have
to wait until we're rolling out side-by-side to know it. I'd have
busted both pilots along with the controller on this one.

Matt

Me, too. But they got away with it. This time.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On 2007-04-18 03:45:54 -0700, Matt Whiting said:

C J Campbell wrote:

I remember a time that a pilot contacted Tacoma Narrows tower to inform
them that he was going to overfly the airspace. Tower rather gruffly
told him to contact Seattle approach, because although he was in TIW's
class D space, they had an operating agreement with Seattle that anyone
above a certain altitude (but below the overlying B) that Seattle would
handle that traffic. The pilot replied, "Oh, sorry. I didn't have a
copy of the operating agreement here in the AF/D." The tower controller
was testy the rest of the afternoon. This was the same tower controller
that was paying so little attention to what was going on that he had
two airplanes touch down on the runway simultaneously -- and didn't
know it, despite having cleared both to land. Fortunately, they didn't
hit each other. He is no longer there. (The reason the planes did not
hit each other was one was flown by a student pilot -- missed the
center line and landed on the right side of the runway and somewhat
short. The other was flown by an airline pilot -- he also could not hit
the center line with a small plane and landed left and long. They
didn't see each other until after they touched down.)

I'm always amazed when I hear things like this. I listen to all radio
traffic when flying, not just calls to me. If I hear another airplane
cleared to land on the same runway as me at the same time, I don't have
to wait until we're rolling out side-by-side to know it. I'd have
busted both pilots along with the controller on this one.

Matt

I should expand on that, because it gets worse (for the pilots). The
airline pilot not only never saw the other plane, even after they both
landed and did a touch and go, but he had his radio tuned to the wrong
frequency and never even heard or acknowledged his clearance to land!
And he did not find out about that until later when he checked his
frequency when he returned to the airport. Oops.

Well, if we busted people for every violation or stupid act there
wouldn't be many of us left. He learned his lesson, and some of us
learned from his experience. (For one thing, if he is ever in the area
again, go someplace else. :-) ) Seriously, it is a common problem at
TIW for some reason. People are always trying to talk to the tower on
the wrong frequency, usually the CTAF at Shelton. Or they are trying to
talk to Shelton traffic on TIW's frequency. I have started making it a
habit to monitor both frequencies because of it. One of the tower
controllers was doing that for awhile, too. Pilots would call Tacoma
Tower using Shelton's CTAF and he would reply "You are on Shelton's
frequency." That was a smart controller. I liked him.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On 2007-04-18 14:06:25 -0700, (andrew m. boardman) said:

C J Campbell wrote:
Everyone has a bad day, I guess, but it seems, from the number of
complaints here, that Reading has more bad days than good ones. Tough.

I learned to fly near there and did my long solo cross-country into
Reading in 1994 or so. Damned unpleasant experience, but everyone
afterwards said "oh, yeah, Reading is like that". (Actually, that was
about the nicest thing I heard; most of it was unprintable.) They've
been getting complaints for years, but "cranky and unhelpful" seems to be
within the realm of acceptable behavior.

Perhaps the local pilots could throw a blanket party for the tower controllers.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

C J Campbell wrote:
On 2007-04-18 03:45:54 -0700, Matt Whiting said:

C J Campbell wrote:

I remember a time that a pilot contacted Tacoma Narrows tower to
inform them that he was going to overfly the airspace. Tower rather
gruffly told him to contact Seattle approach, because although he was
in TIW's class D space, they had an operating agreement with Seattle
that anyone above a certain altitude (but below the overlying B) that
Seattle would handle that traffic. The pilot replied, "Oh, sorry. I
didn't have a copy of the operating agreement here in the AF/D." The
tower controller was testy the rest of the afternoon. This was the
same tower controller that was paying so little attention to what was
going on that he had two airplanes touch down on the runway
simultaneously -- and didn't know it, despite having cleared both to
land. Fortunately, they didn't hit each other. He is no longer there.
(The reason the planes did not hit each other was one was flown by a
student pilot -- missed the center line and landed on the right side
of the runway and somewhat short. The other was flown by an airline
pilot -- he also could not hit the center line with a small plane and
landed left and long. They didn't see each other until after they
touched down.)

I'm always amazed when I hear things like this. I listen to all radio
traffic when flying, not just calls to me. If I hear another airplane
cleared to land on the same runway as me at the same time, I don't
have to wait until we're rolling out side-by-side to know it. I'd
have busted both pilots along with the controller on this one.

Matt

I should expand on that, because it gets worse (for the pilots). The
airline pilot not only never saw the other plane, even after they both
landed and did a touch and go, but he had his radio tuned to the wrong
frequency and never even heard or acknowledged his clearance to land!
And he did not find out about that until later when he checked his
frequency when he returned to the airport. Oops.

Let me guess ... he flies for Northwest! :-)

Matt

On 2007-04-18 14:42:40 -0700, Matt Whiting said:

C J Campbell wrote:
On 2007-04-18 03:45:54 -0700, Matt Whiting said:

C J Campbell wrote:

I remember a time that a pilot contacted Tacoma Narrows tower to inform
them that he was going to overfly the airspace. Tower rather gruffly
told him to contact Seattle approach, because although he was in TIW's
class D space, they had an operating agreement with Seattle that anyone
above a certain altitude (but below the overlying B) that Seattle would
handle that traffic. The pilot replied, "Oh, sorry. I didn't have a
copy of the operating agreement here in the AF/D." The tower controller
was testy the rest of the afternoon. This was the same tower controller
that was paying so little attention to what was going on that he had
two airplanes touch down on the runway simultaneously -- and didn't
know it, despite having cleared both to land. Fortunately, they didn't
hit each other. He is no longer there. (The reason the planes did not
hit each other was one was flown by a student pilot -- missed the
center line and landed on the right side of the runway and somewhat
short. The other was flown by an airline pilot -- he also could not hit
the center line with a small plane and landed left and long. They
didn't see each other until after they touched down.)

I'm always amazed when I hear things like this. I listen to all radio
traffic when flying, not just calls to me. If I hear another airplane
cleared to land on the same runway as me at the same time, I don't have
to wait until we're rolling out side-by-side to know it. I'd have
busted both pilots along with the controller on this one.

Matt

I should expand on that, because it gets worse (for the pilots). The
airline pilot not only never saw the other plane, even after they both
landed and did a touch and go, but he had his radio tuned to the wrong
frequency and never even heard or acknowledged his clearance to land!
And he did not find out about that until later when he checked his
frequency when he returned to the airport. Oops.

Let me guess ... he flies for Northwest! :-)

Matt

That was my understanding, actually.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On 16-Apr-2007, Newps wrote:

Every single tower has a radar facility to provide approach services,
some more effective than others. Every single tower can, at their
discretion, accept a VFR arrival without first contacting a radar
facility.

Oshkosh's tower doesn't have a BRITE scope or any other type of radar.
Scott Wilson