Sun N Fun '07 Redux

They're both in their 80's. I think my dad
was disappointed that there was no B-17

I think everyone was disappointed by their absence. I wonder who peed
in the warbird's Wheaties, to make them stay home with their toys?

Also- I wonder if the new format affected
the attendance. This year the event runs from
mid-week to mid-week rather than from
weekend to weekend. I'm not sure of the
reasoning behind that but I suppose there
are advantages and disadvantages either way.
It did seem that there were fewer attendees
flying in but the spectator crowd on Friday
seemed rather large. (At least the parking lots
seemed full for a weekday).

Yeah, we saw more arrivals on Friday then we did the previous few
days. I suspect that part of that was due to the big storm that sat
in the East for a few days, and part of that was simply people coming
in for a 3-day weekend.

SNF seems to get a LOT more people from the Eastern Seaboard than OSH
does, so any weather affecting that area is going to hurt SNF badly.

Saturday looked to be getting very busy, too, but we were off the
ground by 10 AM, so I don't know how it eventually panned out.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article . com,
Jay Honeck wrote:

I think everyone was disappointed by their absence. I wonder who peed
in the warbird's Wheaties, to make them stay home with their toys?

My guess is the cost of getting to SNF and back home.
Those are the costs they themselves have to bear.
Once they get to SNF, all the fuel and oil they can burn is free.
If you don't have a sponsor to pay your bills, you have to budget for
the events you are really committed to attending.
When you are looking at 30 gallons per hour for fuel and 1/2 gallon per
hour of oil through a radial engine, todays costs are high.

On Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:02:50 -0400, john smith wrote:

In article . com,
Jay Honeck wrote:

I think everyone was disappointed by their absence. I wonder who peed
in the warbird's Wheaties, to make them stay home with their toys?

My guess is the cost of getting to SNF and back home.
Those are the costs they themselves have to bear.
Once they get to SNF, all the fuel and oil they can burn is free.
If you don't have a sponsor to pay your bills, you have to budget for
the events you are really committed to attending.
When you are looking at 30 gallons per hour for fuel and 1/2 gallon per
hour of oil through a radial engine, todays costs are high.

The warbirds also were mostly missing at Arlington last year. Word was that the
fly-in could no longer fund the other items previously supplied to the owners
(hotel rooms, etc.). This was probably partially due to the lawsuit over the
RV-6 crash.

I'd guess this doesn't affect the attendance figures for aircraft owners/pilots,
but does matter to the general populace. A major factor for both SnF and
Arlington, since they're directly adjacent to major population centers and
depend upon general admission for a large part of their income. Not so
significant for Oshkosh, I'd think.

Ron Wanttaja

I think everyone was disappointed by their absence. I wonder who peed
in the warbird's Wheaties, to make them stay home with their toys?

My guess is the cost of getting to SNF and back home.
Those are the costs they themselves have to bear.
Once they get to SNF, all the fuel and oil they can burn is free.
If you don't have a sponsor to pay your bills, you have to budget for
the events you are really committed to attending.
When you are looking at 30 gallons per hour for fuel and 1/2 gallon per
hour of oil through a radial engine, todays costs are high.

I understand costs are high, but SNF needs to take the "long view" of
this thing. If, as some have stated, SNF attendance has been
dropping, the organizers need to understand two simple things about
airshow crowds:

1. They want warbirds.
2. They won't come back if there aren't warbirds present.

When we organized our local show, in '06, we classified warbird
attendance as our top priority. We were able to get a P-51, several
Stearmans, and several T-28s, and they made the show a success.
(Note: Ours was NOT an "air" show, but the static displays and fly-
overs ensured a large local turnout...)

I know SNF isn't a local show in the same sense -- but the same
principles apply. They need to attract the warbirds, in order to
ensure the crowd. If that means extra costs, they're just going to
have to build that in to their budget.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...

I understand costs are high, but SNF needs to take the "long view" of
this thing. If, as some have stated, SNF attendance has been
dropping, the organizers need to understand two simple things about
airshow crowds:

1. They want warbirds.
2. They won't come back if there aren't warbirds present.


Yes, as a spectator I tend to agree with that.
Also, in past years SNF was scheduled, by design
or by chance, to coincide with the MacDill Airfest.
SNF was treated to some high profile fly-bys by
a/c associated with the Airfest. I really was surprised
to see visits from some of these "exotics" at SNF this
year since the two events were seperated by a couple
of weeks. I think this really says something about how
the military values the SNF. Additionally, I used to
see some of the same vintage warbirds at both events.

I also understand that it is easy for me to complain
and whine about the low attendance numbers for
vintage warbirds, many of which are privately owned
and operated, when I'm not the one paying for
their fuel and maintenance.

TP

TP

When I flew the Merlin (P-51) we burned in the low 60GPH for normal
cruise. At a low crusie we could get down into the high 50's GPH. Take
a flight of 1000 miles to get there and 4-5 hours each way and any
flying at air show you can get an idea of just fuel costs to attend.

It's a sorry state but looks like there will be less and less war
birds at shows ( They are being priced out of the picture.

Big John
************************************************** ***********8

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:11:38 GMT, "muff528"
wrote:


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...

I understand costs are high, but SNF needs to take the "long view" of
this thing. If, as some have stated, SNF attendance has been
dropping, the organizers need to understand two simple things about
airshow crowds:

1. They want warbirds.
2. They won't come back if there aren't warbirds present.


Yes, as a spectator I tend to agree with that.
Also, in past years SNF was scheduled, by design
or by chance, to coincide with the MacDill Airfest.
SNF was treated to some high profile fly-bys by
a/c associated with the Airfest. I really was surprised
to see visits from some of these "exotics" at SNF this
year since the two events were seperated by a couple
of weeks. I think this really says something about how
the military values the SNF. Additionally, I used to
see some of the same vintage warbirds at both events.

I also understand that it is easy for me to complain
and whine about the low attendance numbers for
vintage warbirds, many of which are privately owned
and operated, when I'm not the one paying for
their fuel and maintenance.

TP

"Big John" wrote in message
...
TP

When I flew the Merlin (P-51) we burned in the low 60GPH for normal
cruise. At a low crusie we could get down into the high 50's GPH. Take
a flight of 1000 miles to get there and 4-5 hours each way and any
flying at air show you can get an idea of just fuel costs to attend.

It's a sorry state but looks like there will be less and less war
birds at shows ( They are being priced out of the picture.

Big John

Yes, that adds up fast.........and I can just imagine 4 big radials sucking
gas and oil on that 1000 mile trip! Jay has a point that the event
organizers
should look at the long term benefits of maybe subsidizing some of the
warbirds' appearances. Only problem is you then have the organizers
playing favorites with their choices of who gets what. Decisions would
likely be based on friendships, nepotism, and proximity to the show and some
who already have major investments in their airplanes would still have to
pay their own way or stay home.
Tony P.

When I flew the Merlin (P-51) we burned in the low 60GPH for normal
cruise. At a low crusie we could get down into the high 50's GPH. Take
a flight of 1000 miles to get there and 4-5 hours each way and any
flying at air show you can get an idea of just fuel costs to attend.

Let's see, that's about $240 per hour for fuel. The P-51 alone now
costs over $1 million, and is almost completely useless outside of
being extremely, almost painfully cool to own.

For some reason, I hope that a guy who can afford to own an utterly
useless $1 million dollar plane can probably afford to **** away $240
per hour to fly it.

Maybe I'm getting too cynical in my dotage, but I think there must be
more to the warbird no-show at SNF than economics. Someone forgot to
butter someone's bread, and they simply stayed home, despite perfect
weather.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ps.com...
Maybe I'm getting too cynical in my dotage, but I think there must be
more to the warbird no-show at SNF than economics. Someone forgot to
butter someone's bread, and they simply stayed home, despite perfect
weather.

I agree with the missing butter theory. On the Saturday right before SnF,
Kermit Week's hosted a Mustang's and Mustang's show and Fantasy of Flight. I
didn't go but I flew over the field. There were thousands of people there.
The parking lot looked full. The ramp area was packed with both P-51s and
Fords.

So, economics of travel was certainly not a part of them not showing up.
They could have hung around and spent some time at SnF, if they had wanted
to. Not only did they not do a fly by but they weren't even on the flight
line. All I saw was the pair of acro Mustang's.

Disclaimer: If they were there and I missed them, then never mind!
--
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

On Apr 23, 9:10 pm, Jay Honeck wrote:
For some reason, I hope that a guy who can afford to own an utterly
useless $1 million dollar plane can probably afford to **** away $240
per hour to fly it.

I disagree. Isn't that somewhat analagous to saying that a person who
could afford an $80k airplane can afford to **** away another $20 per
hour in additional taxes and fees? I'll bet that most of the folks
with the resources to invest in something like a P-51 got and kept
those resources by not ****ing away any money at all.

-R