Sun N Fun '07 Redux

I think everyone was disappointed by their absence. I wonder who peed
in the warbird's Wheaties, to make them stay home with their toys?

My guess is the cost of getting to SNF and back home.
Those are the costs they themselves have to bear.
Once they get to SNF, all the fuel and oil they can burn is free.
If you don't have a sponsor to pay your bills, you have to budget for
the events you are really committed to attending.
When you are looking at 30 gallons per hour for fuel and 1/2 gallon per
hour of oil through a radial engine, todays costs are high.

I understand costs are high, but SNF needs to take the "long view" of
this thing. If, as some have stated, SNF attendance has been
dropping, the organizers need to understand two simple things about
airshow crowds:

1. They want warbirds.
2. They won't come back if there aren't warbirds present.

When we organized our local show, in '06, we classified warbird
attendance as our top priority. We were able to get a P-51, several
Stearmans, and several T-28s, and they made the show a success.
(Note: Ours was NOT an "air" show, but the static displays and fly-
overs ensured a large local turnout...)

I know SNF isn't a local show in the same sense -- but the same
principles apply. They need to attract the warbirds, in order to
ensure the crowd. If that means extra costs, they're just going to
have to build that in to their budget.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...

I understand costs are high, but SNF needs to take the "long view" of
this thing. If, as some have stated, SNF attendance has been
dropping, the organizers need to understand two simple things about
airshow crowds:

1. They want warbirds.
2. They won't come back if there aren't warbirds present.


Yes, as a spectator I tend to agree with that.
Also, in past years SNF was scheduled, by design
or by chance, to coincide with the MacDill Airfest.
SNF was treated to some high profile fly-bys by
a/c associated with the Airfest. I really was surprised
to see visits from some of these "exotics" at SNF this
year since the two events were seperated by a couple
of weeks. I think this really says something about how
the military values the SNF. Additionally, I used to
see some of the same vintage warbirds at both events.

I also understand that it is easy for me to complain
and whine about the low attendance numbers for
vintage warbirds, many of which are privately owned
and operated, when I'm not the one paying for
their fuel and maintenance.

TP

TP

When I flew the Merlin (P-51) we burned in the low 60GPH for normal
cruise. At a low crusie we could get down into the high 50's GPH. Take
a flight of 1000 miles to get there and 4-5 hours each way and any
flying at air show you can get an idea of just fuel costs to attend.

It's a sorry state but looks like there will be less and less war
birds at shows ( They are being priced out of the picture.

Big John
************************************************** ***********8

On Tue, 24 Apr 2007 01:11:38 GMT, "muff528"
wrote:


"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
oups.com...

I understand costs are high, but SNF needs to take the "long view" of
this thing. If, as some have stated, SNF attendance has been
dropping, the organizers need to understand two simple things about
airshow crowds:

1. They want warbirds.
2. They won't come back if there aren't warbirds present.


Yes, as a spectator I tend to agree with that.
Also, in past years SNF was scheduled, by design
or by chance, to coincide with the MacDill Airfest.
SNF was treated to some high profile fly-bys by
a/c associated with the Airfest. I really was surprised
to see visits from some of these "exotics" at SNF this
year since the two events were seperated by a couple
of weeks. I think this really says something about how
the military values the SNF. Additionally, I used to
see some of the same vintage warbirds at both events.

I also understand that it is easy for me to complain
and whine about the low attendance numbers for
vintage warbirds, many of which are privately owned
and operated, when I'm not the one paying for
their fuel and maintenance.

TP

"Big John" wrote in message
...
TP

When I flew the Merlin (P-51) we burned in the low 60GPH for normal
cruise. At a low crusie we could get down into the high 50's GPH. Take
a flight of 1000 miles to get there and 4-5 hours each way and any
flying at air show you can get an idea of just fuel costs to attend.

It's a sorry state but looks like there will be less and less war
birds at shows ( They are being priced out of the picture.

Big John

Yes, that adds up fast.........and I can just imagine 4 big radials sucking
gas and oil on that 1000 mile trip! Jay has a point that the event
organizers
should look at the long term benefits of maybe subsidizing some of the
warbirds' appearances. Only problem is you then have the organizers
playing favorites with their choices of who gets what. Decisions would
likely be based on friendships, nepotism, and proximity to the show and some
who already have major investments in their airplanes would still have to
pay their own way or stay home.
Tony P.

When I flew the Merlin (P-51) we burned in the low 60GPH for normal
cruise. At a low crusie we could get down into the high 50's GPH. Take
a flight of 1000 miles to get there and 4-5 hours each way and any
flying at air show you can get an idea of just fuel costs to attend.

Let's see, that's about $240 per hour for fuel. The P-51 alone now
costs over $1 million, and is almost completely useless outside of
being extremely, almost painfully cool to own.

For some reason, I hope that a guy who can afford to own an utterly
useless $1 million dollar plane can probably afford to **** away $240
per hour to fly it.

Maybe I'm getting too cynical in my dotage, but I think there must be
more to the warbird no-show at SNF than economics. Someone forgot to
butter someone's bread, and they simply stayed home, despite perfect
weather.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ps.com...
Maybe I'm getting too cynical in my dotage, but I think there must be
more to the warbird no-show at SNF than economics. Someone forgot to
butter someone's bread, and they simply stayed home, despite perfect
weather.

I agree with the missing butter theory. On the Saturday right before SnF,
Kermit Week's hosted a Mustang's and Mustang's show and Fantasy of Flight. I
didn't go but I flew over the field. There were thousands of people there.
The parking lot looked full. The ramp area was packed with both P-51s and
Fords.

So, economics of travel was certainly not a part of them not showing up.
They could have hung around and spent some time at SnF, if they had wanted
to. Not only did they not do a fly by but they weren't even on the flight
line. All I saw was the pair of acro Mustang's.

Disclaimer: If they were there and I missed them, then never mind!
--
-------------------------------
Travis
Lake N3094P
PWK

I agree with the missing butter theory. On the Saturday right before SnF,
Kermit Week's hosted a Mustang's and Mustang's show and Fantasy of Flight. I
didn't go but I flew over the field. There were thousands of people there.
The parking lot looked full. The ramp area was packed with both P-51s and
Fords.

Interesting bringing up Kermit Weeks. Mary and I tried to find our
way to his nearby "Fantasy of Flight" museum during the week, and were
astounded to find that there was NO shuttle bus from the SNF grounds
to his museum. NONE.

Not for any price -- which seemed really, really weird. I figured
there must be bad blood between them.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

In article . com,
Jay Honeck wrote:

Interesting bringing up Kermit Weeks. Mary and I tried to find our
way to his nearby "Fantasy of Flight" museum during the week, and were
astounded to find that there was NO shuttle bus from the SNF grounds
to his museum. NONE.

That's quite a ways away.
Fantasy of Flight is southwest of Disney World.
That's on the west side of Orlando.
That's about 60 miles away.
Not really a shuttle ride away.

I agree with the missing butter theory. On the Saturday right before SnF,
Kermit Week's hosted a Mustang's and Mustang's show and Fantasy of Flight.
didn't go but I flew over the field. There were thousands of people there.
The parking lot looked full. The ramp area was packed with both P-51s and
Fords.

Interesting that you bring up Kermit Weeks and the "Fantasy of Flight"
museum. Mary and I tried to find a shuttle from the SNF grounds to
the "F-of-F" museum -- and there simply wasn't one! We asked at the
"transportation center" (where all the buses pick-up) and the
volunteers there just shrugged their shoulders...

This, to me, signals loud and clear that there is some VERY bad blood
between the two organizations. Here they've got thousands of pilots
and planes at SNF, just a few miles from F-of-F, and NO ONE thought to
provide a shuttle bus over to the museum? Not!

Somebody peed in somebody's Wheaties...

Judging by the P-51 turnout at F-of-F, and what you related, above,
obviously Kermit Weeks is more "plugged into" the warbird community
than the SNF organizers.

I find it so sad -- and frustrating -- that aviation is so fractured
like this. Despite being a TINY minority, it always seems that we
aviators always self-segregate themselves into even tinier sub-groups.
Often those sub-groups can't seem to get along with each other.

It's sad, and it's why we continually lose the public relations
battles with the anti-aviation crowd.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
ups.com...
I agree with the missing butter theory. On the Saturday right before SnF,
Kermit Week's hosted a Mustang's and Mustang's show and Fantasy of
Flight.
didn't go but I flew over the field. There were thousands of people
there.
The parking lot looked full. The ramp area was packed with both P-51s and
Fords.

Interesting that you bring up Kermit Weeks and the "Fantasy of Flight"
museum. Mary and I tried to find a shuttle from the SNF grounds to
the "F-of-F" museum -- and there simply wasn't one! We asked at the
"transportation center" (where all the buses pick-up) and the
volunteers there just shrugged their shoulders...

This, to me, signals loud and clear that there is some VERY bad blood
between the two organizations. Here they've got thousands of pilots
and planes at SNF, just a few miles from F-of-F, and NO ONE thought to
provide a shuttle bus over to the museum? Not!

Somebody peed in somebody's Wheaties...

Fantasy of Flight used to have a large display at SnF. I don't remember if
they offered a shuttle service or not. I suspect many of the hardcore
folks who are there by airplane or RV don't really have the ability to
easily go 20 miles up the road to visit FoF...

Also, looking at FoF, I have a sneaking suspicion that the intent of the
business isn't necessarily to be a big money maker. It *may* simply be a
good way for Kermit to turn a frighteningly expensive hobby into something
he can write off as an expense on taxes.

Just speculating....

KB


Judging by the P-51 turnout at F-of-F, and what you related, above,
obviously Kermit Weeks is more "plugged into" the warbird community
than the SNF organizers.

I find it so sad -- and frustrating -- that aviation is so fractured
like this. Despite being a TINY minority, it always seems that we
aviators always self-segregate themselves into even tinier sub-groups.
Often those sub-groups can't seem to get along with each other.

It's sad, and it's why we continually lose the public relations
battles with the anti-aviation crowd.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"