interesting moment yesterday on final

"Newps" wrote in message
. ..


Mike 'Flyin'8' wrote:

I have always (though my flying career is still quite young) entered
on the 45. If I have to go out of my way to enter on the 45, that I
what I do.


I never do, unless my direction from the airport lends an entry on the
downwind. Fly past the airport just so I can get on a 45? You must be
joking.
...


Isn't that what the upwind leg is for?

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

"Mike 'Flyin'8'" wrote in message
...

That is a simplistic view of things. Yes it is disrupting, and yes I
would make room. Even if it is not the "right way" of doing things.
I have always (though my flying career is still quite young) entered
on the 45. If I have to go out of my way to enter on the 45, that I
what I do. Would I cut someone off on a disruptive straight in, no.
Are they in the wrong, IMHO yes they are, but I can't argue about it
if I am dead.


It is the "right way" of doing things, straight-ins are not disruptive.

On Apr 27, 3:14 pm, Newps wrote:

So you'll gladly adjust the size of your pattern, maybe extend an upwind
or crosswind to fit somebody in the pattern because he enters it the
'right' way. But if he tries to enter on a straight in it's disrupting
the pattern?

WEEEeeeeellll, come to think of it......yeah. Yeah, that pretty much
sums it up, for the most part. There being exceptions and all.

If you come to the playground, you should make nice with everyone
instead of telling them to all hold off, now that you're here and
all. Especially since some of them might not have radios.

wrote in message
oups.com...

WEEEeeeeellll, come to think of it......yeah. Yeah, that pretty much
sums it up, for the most part. There being exceptions and all.

If you come to the playground, you should make nice with everyone
instead of telling them to all hold off, now that you're here and
all. Especially since some of them might not have radios.


Those already at the playground should make nice by properly accommodating
the aircraft on the straight-in approach.

On Apr 29, 4:11 am, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...



WEEEeeeeellll, come to think of it......yeah. Yeah, that pretty much
sums it up, for the most part. There being exceptions and all.

If you come to the playground, you should make nice with everyone
instead of telling them to all hold off, now that you're here and
all. Especially since some of them might not have radios.

Those already at the playground should make nice by properly accommodating
the aircraft on the straight-in approach.

I guess that depends on your definition of "properly". (Oh, Mr.
Hotshot wants to come in, and he's too important to join the circle
properly, like the rest of us. Better get out of his way!)

Having seen this discussion numerous other places, I conclude that it
will never be "settled".

I expect there are times when a straight-in is appropriate. In the
C172, C182, and the like that I fly, I can't imagine what that would
be (short of emergencies, but let's not clutter up the discussion).
Frankly, my total time is low enough that I'm not likely to do
anything not by the book, if I can help it.

In large airports that are still non-towered (after hours, etc.) you
might make a case, if you have a large aircraft. I don't know what
that case would be though.

In general, I view straight-ins the same way I view cutting in line at
a theater or whatever: there may be times, but in general it is at
least rude; more likely it can also be unsafe. It's "calling dibs",
and challenging others to accomodate you. There are too many
plausible situations where you won't be seen (necessary if the other
aircraft are NORDO). You could be too far away for someone turning
downwind to base or base to final to see.

wrote in message
oups.com...

I guess that depends on your definition of "properly". (Oh, Mr.
Hotshot wants to come in, and he's too important to join the circle
properly, like the rest of us. Better get out of his way!)

Having seen this discussion numerous other places, I conclude that it
will never be "settled".


I think you're right about that. There will always be those that believe
aircraft flying a full pattern have the right-of-way.

wrote in message
roups.com...

I guess that depends on your definition of "properly". (Oh, Mr.
Hotshot wants to come in, and he's too important to join the circle
properly, like the rest of us. Better get out of his way!)

Having seen this discussion numerous other places, I conclude that it
will never be "settled".


I think you're right about that. There will always be those that believe
aircraft flying a full pattern have the right-of-way.

I do not think ANYONE is saying that aircraft flying the proper full
pattern have right of way. Rather, they are saying it is more
appropriate is most circumstances, and in almost all cases, safer for
everyone involved.


Excellent timing from AOPA on this subject...
In my email within the past couple days I received this from AOPA:

"In his May 2003 AOPA Pilot feature, "Pattern Perfection," Thomas A.
Horne reviews preferred entries. "It's best to enter the downwind leg
of a nontowered airport's traffic pattern at midfield, on a 45-degree
interception angle. This gives you a good viewing perspective of all
legs of the pattern. You should be at pattern altitude (anywhere from
600 feet agl to 1,500 feet agl—check your airport reference for the
recommended altitude), and your downwind leg should be flown as close
as is comfortable for the airplane you're flying."

Here is a link to the full article:
http://www.aopa.org/members/files/pi...ttern0305.html


Mike Alexander
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
See my online aerial photo album at
http://flying.4alexanders.com

Erik wrote:

Because straight in approaches at an uncontrolled airport
disrupt the pattern that everyone is using. Perhaps if there
were no other traffic at the time, it would be perfectly fine
but when everyone is in line and doing their thing, someone
cutting in sucks. There is a fairly large municipal airport
nearby that accommodates jets and sometimes, we single engine
folk have to anticipate them, but it still disrupts things.

I think you're taking a very narrow view of things. I often practice my
pattern work at a not-towered airport that has an ILS approach. This airport
is popular for instrument training and there are usually several planes
flying the ILS, which involves about a 5 mile straight-in. Fitting the
straight-in traffic into the pattern is not as difficult as you make it out
to be. All it takes is a little communication between the aircraft on
downwind and the aircraft on final. Sometimes it's easier for the downwind
traffic to fly a tighter pattern and land first, other times it's better to
have the downwind aircraft extend for an extra 30 seconds or so. Either way,
I can't see why this is such a big deal.

In the OP's case, the straight-in traffic appeared to be late getting on
the frequency. They coordinated a solution and everyone made it down in one
piece. Sounds like an average day at a non-towered airport to me.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

In article 715979707cdb8@uwe, "JGalban via AviationKB.com" u32749@uwe
wrote:

In the OP's case, the straight-in traffic appeared to be late getting on
the frequency. They coordinated a solution and everyone made it down in one
piece. Sounds like an average day at a non-towered airport to me.

One point that no one mentioned (that I saw), KBED doesn't get much traffic
when the tower is closed, partly because of the charges (aka fines) for
operations after 11pm. I would have thought anyone on 118.5 would
have been surprised that anyone else was also on.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

"Erik" wrote in message
...

Because straight in approaches at an uncontrolled airport
disrupt the pattern that everyone is using.


No more so than entering on the downwind .



Perhaps if there
were no other traffic at the time, it would be perfectly fine
but when everyone is in line and doing their thing, someone
cutting in sucks.


A straight-in approach is not "cutting in". Too many pilots believe pattern
traffic has the right -of-way.



There is a fairly large municipal airport
nearby that accommodates jets and sometimes, we single engine
folk have to anticipate them, but it still disrupts things.


Right. It's far better to have the jet fly a full pattern and mix it up
with the single engine folks than to have the single engine folks extend
downwind to follow a jet on a straight in approach.