An Interview With Chuck Yeager

"Snidely" wrote in message
...
We were absolutely justified in locking up Japanese during the war, to
suggest otherwise is retarded. Unlike the so-called "wars" the US has been
in since then, WWII was a fight to the death. When up against a capable
and ruthless opponent that thinks of all others as sub-human, there is no
room for any PC bull****. Those that applauded that day understand this.

Any Japanese (or anybody else) that are offended by this need to read some
history about how they (the Japanese) waged war at that time. Our locking
up a few people was absolutely harmless in every imaginable respect in
comparison. Don't believe it? Start reading. As good a place to start as
any is what is now called "the rape of Nanking".


One case that I am familiar with is that of the Nakagawa family. They owned
an orchard in Oregon. When the decree was issued they were required to sale
their property, which they had recently purchased, within 24 hours. The
"sharks" came out and their best offer was about 1% of the value of their
property. They were required to leave with only the items that could be
packed in a suitcase and shipped out to a desolate camp in Idaho.
(http://www.nps.gov/archive/miin/home.htm)

One of the sons of this family was named Gordon. He was an A-6 Intruder
pilot during Vietnam and was unfortunate enough to be shot down and spend
some time in the "Hanoi Hilton" POW prison. Shortly after he was captured
his mother was interviewed by CBS television. During that interview she
stated "you know, this is the second time Gordon was a prisoner of war. The
first time was in Idaho." (http://www.pownetwork.org/bios/n/n041.htm)

You can't deny that the Japanese internment was based on race. Gordon is a
forth generation American citizen who was interned. I am a forth generation
American with German ancestry whose father didn't speak English until after
he entered public school. Gordon was lock up and my family were allowed to
continue a normal life.

Post war review of the families in the Minidoka camp has shown that NONE
were security risks. The only explanation for their internment is racism
and greed for the prime farmland they owned.

Wayne
CDR USN (Retired)
http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder

"Wayne Paul" wrote in message
...

You can't deny that the Japanese internment was based on race.


What was German and Italian internment based on?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
k.net...

"Wayne Paul" wrote in message
...

You can't deny that the Japanese internment was based on race.


What was German and Italian internment based on?


Resident aliens?

A few questions for you:



What was the percentage of interned Italians and Germans were Resident
aliens, Nationalized U.S. Citizens, and Citizens Born in the USA?



My father spoke with a strong German accent and he was never questioned.
His grand parents immigrated and became citizens. If they would have come
from Japan instead of Germany we would have been interned.



If you can show me that the interned Germans and Italians had as high a
percentage of US Citizens as the Japanese, I will concede that it was not a
mater of race.



Wayne

http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder

"Wayne Paul" wrote in message
...

Resident aliens?


No, American citizens of German and Italian descent.



A few questions for you:

What was the percentage of interned Italians and Germans were Resident
aliens, Nationalized U.S. Citizens, and Citizens Born in the USA?


I don't know.



My father spoke with a strong German accent and he was never questioned.
His grand parents immigrated and became citizens. If they would have come
from Japan instead of Germany we would have been interned.

If you can show me that the interned Germans and Italians had as high a
percentage of US Citizens as the Japanese, I will concede that it was not
a mater of race.


Why would that be relevant?

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
k.net...

"Wayne Paul" wrote in message
...

Resident aliens?


No, American citizens of German and Italian descent.



A few questions for you:

What was the percentage of interned Italians and Germans were Resident
aliens, Nationalized U.S. Citizens, and Citizens Born in the USA?


I don't know.



My father spoke with a strong German accent and he was never questioned.
His grand parents immigrated and became citizens. If they would have
come
from Japan instead of Germany we would have been interned.

If you can show me that the interned Germans and Italians had as high a
percentage of US Citizens as the Japanese, I will concede that it was not
a mater of race.


Why would that be relevant?

OK, let us change that comparison. What percentage of the Germans and
Italians interned were actual threats to the security of the war effort. If
that percentage is as low as the interned Japanese, I will concede that it
was not a mater of race.

All the west coast Japanese were interned, not just a segment of the
community. By the numbers you quoted earlier it is obvious that the
Government had a criteria for selecting specific Italians and specific
Germans for the camps. The criteria for the Japanese was simply being
Japanese.

I know the criteria for the Germans wasn't that broad, because none of my
family were interned nor was any other German family that we knew.

The paranoia and associated fear of the time is understandable; however,
after 60 years failing to recognize the injustice of our actions is
inexcusable.

"Wayne Paul" wrote in message
...

OK, let us change that comparison. What percentage of the Germans and
Italians interned were actual threats to the security of the war effort.
If that percentage is as low as the interned Japanese, I will concede that
it was not a mater of race.


I don't know, I imagine it's a rather low percentage.



All the west coast Japanese were interned, not just a segment of the
community. By the numbers you quoted earlier it is obvious that the
Government had a criteria for selecting specific Italians and specific
Germans for the camps. The criteria for the Japanese was simply being
Japanese.


What do you base that on?



I know the criteria for the Germans wasn't that broad, because none of my
family were interned nor was any other German family that we knew.


Is that the limit of your research? Why do you assume race was the only
issue? Could geography have been an issue? What percentage of
Japanese-Americans were concentrated in more defense sensitive areas like
the west coast versus less sensitive areas like Milwaukee? Could time or
history have been issues? German immigration began before the US
revolution, and Germans served in the Comntinental Army. Japanese
immigration to the US was more recent.



The paranoia and associated fear of the time is understandable; however,
after 60 years failing to recognize the injustice of our actions is
inexcusable.


But we have recognized the injustice done to Japanese-Americans. We haven't
recognized the injustice done to German-Americans. Most Americans aren't
even aware that US citizens of German descent were interned during WWII.
The fact that it was done in fewer numbers than with Japanese-Americans
makes it no less of an injustice to those that were interned.

Steven,

This is my last reply.

My opinions are based on personal experience. As a child I lived on the
west coast in a community with a large Japanese population. I have seen the
injustice and its' effect on people I know and saw my school class mates
were herded of to internment camps. As an adult I have listened to their
stories. I believe them.

Wayne
CDR USN (Retired)


"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Wayne Paul" wrote in message
...

OK, let us change that comparison. What percentage of the Germans and
Italians interned were actual threats to the security of the war effort.
If that percentage is as low as the interned Japanese, I will concede
that it was not a mater of race.


I don't know, I imagine it's a rather low percentage.



All the west coast Japanese were interned, not just a segment of the
community. By the numbers you quoted earlier it is obvious that the
Government had a criteria for selecting specific Italians and specific
Germans for the camps. The criteria for the Japanese was simply being
Japanese.


What do you base that on?



I know the criteria for the Germans wasn't that broad, because none of my
family were interned nor was any other German family that we knew.


Is that the limit of your research? Why do you assume race was the only
issue? Could geography have been an issue? What percentage of
Japanese-Americans were concentrated in more defense sensitive areas like
the west coast versus less sensitive areas like Milwaukee? Could time or
history have been issues? German immigration began before the US
revolution, and Germans served in the Comntinental Army. Japanese
immigration to the US was more recent.



The paranoia and associated fear of the time is understandable; however,
after 60 years failing to recognize the injustice of our actions is
inexcusable.


But we have recognized the injustice done to Japanese-Americans. We
haven't recognized the injustice done to German-Americans. Most Americans
aren't even aware that US citizens of German descent were interned during
WWII. The fact that it was done in fewer numbers than with
Japanese-Americans makes it no less of an injustice to those that were
interned.

"Wayne Paul" wrote:

OK, let us change that comparison. What percentage of the Germans and
Italians interned were actual threats to the security of the war effort.
If
that percentage is as low as the interned Japanese, I will concede that it
was not a matter of race.

All the west coast Japanese were interned, not just a segment of the
community. By the numbers you quoted earlier it is obvious that the
Government had a criteria for selecting specific Italians and specific
Germans for the camps. The criteria for the Japanese was simply being
Japanese.

That's pretty much what the Supreme Court found in ex parte Mitsuye Endo:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bi...=323&invol=283

This was a 1944 decision which found the internment both inherently
racist and of dubious military necessity, and that the practice exceeded
the bounds of the executive order and other acts at question here.

The Korematsu v. United States decision (also 1944) decided that it
would be constitutional to intern US citizens on the basis of ancestry,
when there was a pressing public need, but the decision has been
called into question because

The Hawaiian experience during the war makes mass internment seem
even more useless. Of the 158,000 ethnic Japanese in the Hawaiian
Territory, only some 2,500 were interned, and only one man--someone named
Harada--had any involvement in aiding the Japanese. The remaining 155,000
or so never did anything to hinder the US war effort.

Digging up the numbers on whole populations versus internees took some
doing.
I found some information at the bottom of

http://www.ww2pacific.com/relocation.html

American residents of German birth: 1,237,000
Guesstimated Americans of German ancestry: about 52,000,000

Japanese nationals and Japanese-American citizens in the continental US:
126,749
Interned: 110,000.
"Willingly" relocated from the restricted area: 10,000.

The percentage of interned Germans and German-Americans wasn't even 1%.

For those of Japanese ancestry, internment was about 84%. Add in the people
who had to leave the West Coast and southern Arizona, and 95% of them
were affected.

To stay on-topic for ABPA, here's a picture of one of Ben
Kuroki's planes. I think it's the one from the Ploesti raid.

--Bill Thompson

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

"Wayne Paul" wrote in message
...

You can't deny that the Japanese internment was based on race.



What was German and Italian internment based on?




I think that it is well documented that American POW(s) fared far worse
under Japanese oversight than that of either Germany or Italy. It's all
about culture, not race. Further reinforcement of this belief is the
plight of those that were held by the VC where survival was virtually
non-existent. Add to the mix North Korea and North Vietnam.

Guantanamo is probably a resort as compared to the above...

JT