PSA: Don't be rude on the radio

On May 10, 2:35 am, buttman wrote:
I had two recent situations where other pilots thought they'd be cool
by being condescending jackasses over the radio, which effected my
ability to teach my student.


I don't post here that often anymore, but the recent spat of posts
about pattern etiquette has got me going. I really would like to know
how this theory that just because you're doing touch and goes in the
pattern, means you can go ahead and cut off straight in traffic? The
only thing the FAA has to say, regulatory, regarding traffic patterns
is that all turns must be to the left, unless noted, AND take note of
91.113(g)

Landing. Aircraft while on final approach to land or while landing,
have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on
the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to
force and aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed...

You're a professional aviator. Your student is paying you for your
expertise in this field, "I don't remember where the maker is" is not
acceptable. Should the Cirrus have been more clear about his position
earlier? Maybe. But as a professional you SHOULD be aware that the
marker is typically 6-7 miles from the threshold. At typical approach
speeds that would mean he's 2-3 minutes out. He then called 3 mile
final; that's 90 seconds. You couldn't see the traffic on final, and
not only did you turn base, but you put your tail to him. You CREATED
a collision hazard by cutting him off, and hoped it would either work
out, or he'd see you and get out of your way. BAD FORM.

And in case you were wondering what the FAA's stance on this practice
is, read this- http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/O_n_O/docs/aviation/4236.PDF

CFI was in a habit of cutting off traffic on straight in because HE
was in the pattern. FAA yanked his certificates.

Keep this in mind next time; extending your downwind 30 seconds will
not cost your student any more touch and goes; you probably waste more
time cleaning fouled plugs on the run-up than it takes to extend for
traffic. Meanwhile, that traffic flying a straight in most likely is
NOT training, but going somewhere. Would it not be proper courtesy to
let them go about their business and get out of your way? Instead of
playing "mine is bigger" in the traffic pattern.

On 5/10/2007 10:59:13 AM, wrote:

And in case you were wondering what the FAA's stance on this practice
is, read this- http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/O_n_O/docs/aviation/4236.PDF

Wow. That now ex-pilot appeared to have some real issues there. I got bored
reading the list of incidents outlined in the PDF, there were so many.

--
Peter

wrote in message
ups.com...
On May 10, 2:35 am, buttman wrote:
I had two recent situations where other pilots thought they'd be cool
by being condescending jackasses over the radio, which effected my
ability to teach my student.


I don't post here that often anymore, but the recent spat of posts
about pattern etiquette has got me going. I really would like to know
how this theory that just because you're doing touch and goes in the
pattern, means you can go ahead and cut off straight in traffic? The
only thing the FAA has to say, regulatory, regarding traffic patterns
is that all turns must be to the left, unless noted, AND take note of
91.113(g)

Landing. Aircraft while on final approach to land or while landing,
have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on
the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to
force and aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed...

Which does nothing to define what "final approach" is. If you are aligned
with the runway and intending to land does final begin 5 miles from the
threshold? 10 miles? 15 miles? 50 miles?

On May 10, 11:29 am, "Allen" wrote:
wrote in message

ups.com...



On May 10, 2:35 am, buttman wrote:
I had two recent situations where other pilots thought they'd be cool
by being condescending jackasses over the radio, which effected my
ability to teach my student.

I don't post here that often anymore, but the recent spat of posts
about pattern etiquette has got me going. I really would like to know
how this theory that just because you're doing touch and goes in the
pattern, means you can go ahead and cut off straight in traffic? The
only thing the FAA has to say, regulatory, regarding traffic patterns
is that all turns must be to the left, unless noted, AND take note of
91.113(g)

Landing. Aircraft while on final approach to land or while landing,
have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on
the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to
force and aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed...

Which does nothing to define what "final approach" is. If you are aligned
with the runway and intending to land does final begin 5 miles from the
threshold? 10 miles? 15 miles? 50 miles?

Maybe it would make more sense to announce position in minutes from
touchdown rather than miles.
--
Gene Seibel
Gene & Sue's Aeroplanes - http://pad39a.com/gene/planes.html
Because we fly, we envy no one.

Maybe it would make more sense to announce position in minutes from
touchdown rather than miles.

That presumes you aren't trying to actually find him in the sky.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

On May 10, 11:49 am, Jose wrote:
Maybe it would make more sense to announce position in minutes from
touchdown rather than miles.

That presumes you aren't trying to actually find him in the sky.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no universe.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Good point.
--
Gene Seibel
Gene & Sue's Flying Machine - http://pad39a.com/gene/
Because we fly, we envy no one.

"Gene Seibel" wrote in message
ups.com...
On May 10, 11:49 am, Jose wrote:
Maybe it would make more sense to announce position in minutes from
touchdown rather than miles.

That presumes you aren't trying to actually find him in the sky.

Jose
--
Quantum Mechanics is like this: God =does= play dice with the universe,
except there's no God, and there's no dice. And maybe there's no
universe.

Good point.

No, it isn't. It's outright blather.

"Cessna Seventy-three Charlie Quebec is departing runway 25 at Grass Valley
on a 2300 mile final for runway 9 Oshkosh."

{;-)

Jim



"Allen" wrote in message
...



Which does nothing to define what "final approach" is. If you are aligned
with the runway and intending to land does final begin 5 miles from the
threshold? 10 miles? 15 miles? 50 miles?

I did an 85 mile final to Barnes from BID once.

mike

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...
"Cessna Seventy-three Charlie Quebec is departing runway 25 at Grass
Valley on a 2300 mile final for runway 9 Oshkosh."

{;-)

Jim



"Allen" wrote in message
...



Which does nothing to define what "final approach" is. If you are
aligned with the runway and intending to land does final begin 5 miles
from the threshold? 10 miles? 15 miles? 50 miles?

On Thu, 10 May 2007 11:29:04 -0500, "Allen"
wrote in :

Which does nothing to define what "final approach" is. If you are aligned
with the runway and intending to land does final begin 5 miles from the
threshold? 10 miles? 15 miles? 50 miles?



http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/PCG/F.HTM
FINAL APPROACH [ICAO]- That part of an instrument approach
procedure which commences at the specified final approach fix or
point, or where such a fix or point is not specified.

a. At the end of the last procedure turn, base turn or inbound
turn of a racetrack procedure, if specified; or

b. At the point of interception of the last track specified in the
approach procedure; and ends at a point in the vicinity of an
aerodrome from which:

1. A landing can be made; or

2. A missed approach procedure is initiated.

FINAL APPROACH COURSE- A bearing/radial/track of an instrument
approach leading to a runway or an extended runway centerline all
without regard to distance.

FINAL APPROACH FIX- The fix from which the final approach (IFR) to
an airport is executed and which identifies the beginning of the
final approach segment. It is designated on Government charts by
the Maltese Cross symbol for nonprecision approaches and the
lightning bolt symbol for precision approaches; or when ATC
directs a lower-than-published glideslope/path intercept altitude,
it is the resultant actual point of the glideslope/path intercept.