PSA: Don't be rude on the radio

buttman wrote:
On May 11, 9:28 pm, "Dudley Henriques" wrote:
PLEASE!
Do I REALLY have to reiterate to you that pulling a fuel valve on a student
on takeoff is poor technique for a flight instructor dealing with a
student.....and this goes for having a runway 50 miles long....IT JUST ISN'T
A GOOD SAFE PRACTICE TO DO THIS?

'Safe' is a relative term. What is exactly does 'safe' begin and end?
You admit that a practice engine failure on takeoff is perfectly safe
when done by closing the throttle. The only difference between pulling
the throttle instead of the gas valve means you have power if you need
it. With a wide and long runway 50 feet below you, what would you need
the power for?

When the maintenance truck drives onto the runway ahead of you by
mistake. When the (deer, moose, etc.) runs onto the runway ahead of
you. I can probably think of others, but these two have happened to me
personally. Cutting the fuel is simply an unnecessary risk in this
situation.

Matt

You are either an imposter posing as a flight instructor or a CFI who uses
the worst deductive reasoning I have ever seen posted on these forums. You
in fact might simply be a teen age troll.
I suggest you either quit instructing before you kill someone or disconnect
your little plastic stick from the computer and put it away for the night.
Dudley Henriques


"buttman" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 11, 9:28 pm, "Dudley Henriques" wrote:
PLEASE!
Do I REALLY have to reiterate to you that pulling a fuel valve on a
student
on takeoff is poor technique for a flight instructor dealing with a
student.....and this goes for having a runway 50 miles long....IT JUST
ISN'T
A GOOD SAFE PRACTICE TO DO THIS?

'Safe' is a relative term. What is exactly does 'safe' begin and end?
You admit that a practice engine failure on takeoff is perfectly safe
when done by closing the throttle. The only difference between pulling
the throttle instead of the gas valve means you have power if you need
it. With a wide and long runway 50 feet below you, what would you need
the power for?

I admit there could be a perfectly good reason why you losing that
ability to add back power could result in an accident, but I haven't
heard it. I bet if I were to print out this thread and give it to the
FAA office, I'm pretty sure they'd agree with you. I actually would be
surprised if they recommended doing it. But at the very least, they'd
give good reason to not do so (I hope). It's like one of those puzzles
that you know has an answer, and you kind of know the answer, but non
the less is nowhere to be found.

Do I REALLY have to tell you that regardless of a traffic situation in
the
pattern, and regardless of your position in that pattern and the position
of
another aircraft in or coming into that pattern, YOU as the pilot in
command, and as the instructor flying with a student, should KNOW what to
do
in ALL situations and should have done whatever was needed quietly and
professionally without further discussion or incident regardless of the
actions of the other pilot ?

What should I have done? I misjudged the Cirrus. It was a mistake. I
regret that it happened, but it happened. I thought it would be
further out, but apparently he was closer. I wasn't looking right in
front of me, I was looking further out because thats where I thought
he was. I'll say it for the 100 millionth time; I made a mistake. I
don't know what you want me to do...

This situation should have been a non event for
you as an instructor....period!

It sort of was a non-event. I took the controls from my student,
turned back to rejoin the extended downwind until the cirrus passed,
turned final behind the cirrus, then made a call to the CTAF saying I
had re-established on final behind the cirrus. I didn't snap back at
him, I didn't start crying, I didn't end the flight there... It did
bother me a little, but what do you expect? Are you saying that the
comment bothering me means I'm a bad instructor? Is a controller who
is annoyed by a snappy pilot a bad controller?

At the very least, what you SHOULD have done
in the Cirrus situation is avoid the problem by taking whatever action
was
necessary to insure the safety of your aircraft.

What makes you think I didn't "ensure safety of my aircraft"? You are
making things up.

If there was an issue with
the Cirrus pilot concerning his language, this should have been nothing
more
to you than a golden opportunity to stress the safety issue with your
student. The language issue should have been another golden opportunity
to
stress the need for proper radio etiquette with the student at the moment
of
infraction,

What makes you think I didn't use this as an opportunity to teach my
student proper radio technique? If I remember correctly, my student
(who is a native Chinese speaker, who can hardly speak English in the
first place) even commented "what was that guy's problem" as we were
heading home.

I also think that way I didn't snap back (something I'd never EVER do)
goes to teach my student more than I could ever tell him on the
ground.

NOT here on the group as a rant!

Why? People here made threads ranting about little stuff like this all
the time. I remember a thread about tower induced go-arounds lot too
long ago. How is that any different? Or any of the other 10,000
threads that are made here every year. What exactly makes this thread
so intolerable? I seriously want to know so I won't make anymore.

In my opinion, just these two examples are quite enough for me to make a
decision about you as a flight instructor.

And those "two examples" are completely ridiculous. So your opinion is
worthless.

You asked me for specifics. I have given them to you.
I realize of course that my personal opinion of you as a CFI might not be
exactly to your liking. I have no objection whatsoever if you would like
to
print out the entire two threads on pulling the fuel valve on your
student
pilot and also the incident in the pattern with the Cirrus and take both
of
them down to your local FAA office. Then report back here if you like
with
their collective opinion on these two situations involving your decision
making abilities as a CFI.
Sometimes a fresh input from another source will shed much needed light
on
an issue.
Dudley Henriques

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...

buttman wrote:

The only difference between pulling
the throttle instead of the gas valve means you have power if you need
it.

This single sentence is enough for me . It says it all :-))

Dudley Henriques

This quote you quoted was my post in that thread. I remember, but cannot
reference at this point, two instances where an instructor killed the
engine at altitude over an airport. When it became clear that the
student was going to overshoot the runway, the engine would not
re-start, and a crash ensued. Why take a chance on making a real
emergency trying to simulate one?

gatt wrote:


Hey, all, I have a question about a comment in the

"Sounds like another stupid instructor trick: practicing engine out
procedure at altitude by actually killing the engine. Could lead to an
'Oh ****!' experience. "



Is this no longer considered good instructional practice?

-c

"buttman" wrote in message
oups.com...

No one is perfect, and I don't know why some people can't
accept the fact that I'm not...

You're right. No one IS perfect, but the job of the flight instructor is NOT
to accept this fact as easily as you obviously accept it from the tone of
your posts.
You spend entirely too much time explaining to one and all that not being
perfect is acceptable in a pilot when in fact you should be spending every
minute of your time as a flight instructor doing all in your power to bring
perfection as close to being attainable as possible for your student.
The name of the game in instructing people to fly airplanes is in knowing
that perfection is unattainable while at the same time spending your entire
career as a pilot trying to attain it.
If you don't understand this one single all important concept, and are
unable to pass it on to a student pilot, in my opnion you are SERIOUSLY
lacking in the basic fundementals of proper flight instruction.
You should NEVER...and I repeat it again for you....EVER.....accept an error
made in the air by you, your student, or any other pilot as simply the fact
that "no one is perfect". This loigic has no place in
aviation.......ESPECIALLY professional aviation.......and MOST CERTAINLY not
in the CFI's deductive reasoning.
Dudley Henriques

I did an 85 mile final to Barnes from BID once.

mike

"RST Engineering" wrote in message
...
"Cessna Seventy-three Charlie Quebec is departing runway 25 at Grass
Valley on a 2300 mile final for runway 9 Oshkosh."

{;-)

Jim



"Allen" wrote in message
...



Which does nothing to define what "final approach" is. If you are
aligned with the runway and intending to land does final begin 5 miles
from the threshold? 10 miles? 15 miles? 50 miles?

In a similar vein, I had an instructor slap my hands from the controls and
take over while we taxied up to a parking spot after a check out. We were
going at a slow speed, but he wanted to go to another tie down. There was no
emergency or impending event, he just wanted to go in a different direction.

I explained to him why I thought this was not acceptable for him as an
instructor, and after hearing his weak response, I walked away and never
flew with him again.

He could have said "park over there" or even "I've got the plane", but as a
result, he lost a student and client.

Just about as many problems as a person who quotes several hundred lines of
text for a one line answer.

Jim



"Aluckyguess" wrote in message
...


I dont know if this is true but if it is you sure have a lot of problems.

"Viperdoc" wrote in message
...
In a similar vein, I had an instructor slap my hands from the controls and
take over while we taxied up to a parking spot after a check out. We were
going at a slow speed, but he wanted to go to another tie down. There was
no emergency or impending event, he just wanted to go in a different
direction.

I explained to him why I thought this was not acceptable for him as an
instructor, and after hearing his weak response, I walked away and never
flew with him again.

He could have said "park over there" or even "I've got the plane", but as
a result, he lost a student and client.

I agree. If I were grading this instructor based on solid knowledge this
event occurred exactly as stated, I would find that the instructor should
never have allowed the incident to progress to the point where the airplane
was entering into a parking area he didn't want it to be in. His errors in
this case were several.
The progress of the airplane on the ground should have been better planned
by the instructor so that the first area of parking entered by the student
was the one desired by the instructor; so poor planning to begin with.
Next, physical contact in the corrective sense with a student is never
acceptable behavior for a flight instructor. If the CFI is teaching
properly, the student should not be in a position where this type of
correction is necessary. Not to say that sudden corrective action is never
necessary for an instructor, but if it is, it should be recognized early
enough by the instructor that the "correction" comes more as a "helping
hand" than as a sudden corrective movement.
The entire process of flight instruction is geared toward instilling
confidence in the student. A poor instructor using poor technique can easily
destroy in one second of sudden reaction at the end of a dual session what
has been achieved in the building of confidence with the student through a
last hour of dual.
Dudley Henriques

On Sat, 12 May 2007 11:13:55 -0500, "Viperdoc"
wrote in
:

I had an instructor slap my hands from the controls and
take over while we taxied up to a parking spot after a check out.

Did your instructor earn his certificate in the '30s. Instructors,
indeed pilots, of that era were expected to be treated as gods. At
least that has been my experience.

Was he a military instructor at one time?