Nickname for Apache helicopter

"Jim Beaver" wrote in message
...

"Ed" wrote in message
...

"Jim Beaver" wrote in message
...
An online article suggests, without citation or reference, that the U.S.
Marine Corps nicknamed its Apache helicopter (through three models) as
"The
Duke," presumably in honor of actor John Wayne.

I cannot find corroboration for this statement in web searches. Has
anyone
here with either first-hand or citable evidence to support it ever heard
this story?

Jim Beaver


Not trying to be ignorant here, but if this is the AH64 Apache, isn't the
Army the only user, not the Marines??

That's one of the reasons I'm trying to confirm the statement in the
article. Despite being an ex-Marine, I have no idea as to the answer.
(When I left the Marines, the Huey was pretty new.)

Jim Beaver


I worked briefly at the Apache facory in Mesa AZ rewiring the A model into
Longbows or D model, I had opportunities to chat with people who had been
with the program from the start. This included the Chief Test pilot who
made a point of telling everyone how he let Sen Barry Goldwater handle the
flight controls while the competition (the Commanche?) wouldn't let the
senator handle the controls. Supposedly this was why the Apache won the
contract. He wound up ****ing someone off, got fired and then sued and got
his "job" back however while they had to pay him as a chief test pilot they
didn't have to let him work as one so they made him a line supervisor in the
factory who was my boss for an even briefer time.

What I heard was that they had done everything on paper to navalise the
AH-64 and then made an offer to the Marines but that was as far as it went,
PAPER. My understanding was as far as navalisation goes it was easier to
stick with the Cobra and upgrade the weapons and avionics than to make an an
Apache that could withstand long periods in a salt water environment. I'm
guessing but the blades were probably the biggest hang up. You'd have to
mod them to fold and make sure they could handle a salt water environment.

There are 8 or so Apaches with tie-down rings welded to the bottom of the
fuselage. This was done for the invasion of Granada in 1983.

Can't say their weren't Marine prototypes built but based on what I heard I
doubt it.

In message , Leadfoot
writes
What I heard was that they had done everything on paper to navalise the
AH-64 and then made an offer to the Marines but that was as far as it
went, PAPER.

The UK Apaches are getting qualified for maritime ops offf HMS Ocean or
the CVSs, but that's not full marinisation: rather, detachment as part
of a Tailored Air Group for a specific mission.

My understanding was as far as navalisation goes it was easier to stick
with the Cobra and upgrade the weapons and avionics than to make an an
Apache that could withstand long periods in a salt water environment.
I'm guessing but the blades were probably the biggest hang up. You'd
have to mod them to fold and make sure they could handle a salt water
environment.

I think the Apache's blades fold (for air transport, at least) but as
you point out, getting the airframe able to stand up to prolonged
exposure to salt spray is a seriously non-trivial issue.

Again with UK experience, we deploy Joint Force Harrier GR.7s to sea for
specific deployments, but for a committed force we wanted the Sea
Harrier; which wasn't just a case of putting a radar in the nose, but
some surprisingly wide-ranging structural changes such as getting rid of
all the magnesium components (while light and stiff, I'm assured it rots
very fast in a maritime environment)

--
The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
by fools.
-Thucydides


Paul J. Adam - mainbox{at}jrwlynch[dot]demon(dot)codotuk

"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
...
In message , Leadfoot
writes
What I heard was that they had done everything on paper to navalise the
AH-64 and then made an offer to the Marines but that was as far as it
went, PAPER.

The UK Apaches are getting qualified for maritime ops offf HMS Ocean or
the CVSs, but that's not full marinisation: rather, detachment as part of
a Tailored Air Group for a specific mission.

I broke my knee in 1997 which ended my stint both at Boeing Mesa (I was on a
contract, not a direct employee) and my crawling around on aircraft. A
small batch of UK Apaches were to be built about 6 months to a year later
with the rest of the production being done in England. It's not a hard
aircraft to build

The AH-64D Longbow starts by taking an A model out of storage,(Cheney
mothballed a lot of them after the wall fell) stripping the fuselage to bare
metal and storing/refurbing the various components removed. Then the fun
part comes with rewiring the the fuselage with brand new wiring along with
whatever mods are needed mechanically. DITMCO (continuity check) the wiring
and then install the old and new black boxes along with rigging the flight
controls. Then off to functional/flight test to wring out the bugs.

The oddest thing was that the longbow radar system uses one of the largest
black boxes I have ever seen on an aircraft. About the size of a coffin for
a 12 year old. Or maybe a large steamer trunk. A two man job to install as
it weighs over 100Lbs. Personally I think that was a mistake

My information is a bit dated and subject to a tad bit of fog ;-)



My understanding was as far as navalisation goes it was easier to stick
with the Cobra and upgrade the weapons and avionics than to make an an
Apache that could withstand long periods in a salt water environment. I'm
guessing but the blades were probably the biggest hang up. You'd have to
mod them to fold and make sure they could handle a salt water environment.

I think the Apache's blades fold (for air transport, at least) but as you
point out, getting the airframe able to stand up to prolonged exposure to
salt spray is a seriously non-trivial issue.

Air transport is done via disassembly of the rotor baldes, not folding. It
was designed for that. I think the standard was flying combat in 12 hours
after an offload.


Again with UK experience, we deploy Joint Force Harrier GR.7s to sea for
specific deployments, but for a committed force we wanted the Sea Harrier;
which wasn't just a case of putting a radar in the nose, but some
surprisingly wide-ranging structural changes such as getting rid of all
the magnesium components (while light and stiff, I'm assured it rots very
fast in a maritime environment)

Exacrly! It's one of those "devil in the details" and I bet even if they
had convinced the Marines to buy some once it was deployed something new
would crop up.



--
The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
by fools.
-Thucydides


Paul J. Adam - mainbox{at}jrwlynch[dot]demon(dot)codotuk