BD-5 crash in Australia

"George" wrote in message
t...
After the pics of how he was extricated I think we can explain the "spinal
injuries."

George

And exactly how would you have extracted him the small cockpit of a burning
BD-5? Jaws of death after the fire was out? Wait for a hoist?

My guess is that the "spinal injuries" occured on impact. The BD-5's
cockpit design offers little to no pilot protection.

On May 21, 8:12 am, "Wayne Paul" wrote:
"George" wrote in message

t...

After the pics of how he was extricated I think we can explain the "spinal
injuries."

George

And exactly how would you have extracted him the small cockpit of a burning
BD-5? Jaws of death after the fire was out? Wait for a hoist?

My guess is that the "spinal injuries" occured on impact. The BD-5's
cockpit design offers little to no pilot protection.

Jim Bede openly felt that was unnecessary because most BD-5s would
never fly or if they did would either only fly a few hours and be
junked when the owner died or would crash so badly it would make
little difference how he built it.

I don't think Richard Van Grunsven puts a lot of crashworthiness
effort in the RVs, either. They do fly better than Bede designs
though.

Earlier, RapidRonnie wrote:

Jim Bede openly felt that was unnecessary because most
BD-5s would never fly or if they did would either only fly a few
hours and be junked when the owner died or would crash so
badly it would make little difference how he built it.

If Bede was "Open" about that, you should have no trouble providing a
cite for that assertion. Please do so.

Thanks, Bob K.

"RapidRonnie" wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 21, 8:12 am, "Wayne Paul" wrote:

My guess is that the "spinal injuries" occured on impact. The BD-5's
cockpit design offers little to no pilot protection.

Jim Bede openly felt that was unnecessary because most BD-5s would
never fly or if they did would either only fly a few hours and be
junked when the owner died or would crash so badly it would make
little difference how he built it.

I don't think Richard Van Grunsven puts a lot of crashworthiness
effort in the RVs, either. They do fly better than Bede designs
though.


It wasn't my attempt to imply the crashworthiness of the BD-5 is less then
other homebuilts. It was simply to affirm the primary spinal injury was
caused by the impact. I am sure my HP-14 sailplane isn't much better. I
too, for all practical purposes, am sitting directly on the belly skin.
(http://www.soaridaho.com/photogaller.../17900_MSL.jpg)
(http://tinyurl.com/2esvov)

I am sure a gear-up hard landing would not be good for my previousely
injured spine.

Wayne
HP-14 "6F"
http://www.soaridaho.com/

RapidRonnie wrote:
I don't think Richard Van Grunsven puts a lot of crashworthiness
effort in the RVs, either. They do fly better than Bede designs
though.


The one guy I know of to crash an RV hit a large concrete block and flipped completely
over. He broke the canopy open and crawled out with minor injuries. The airplane (RV-6A)
was essentially a total writeoff though.

Unfortunately, he died of a heart attack a couple years ago.

As far as extracting someone from a wreck, I was taught to never move someone unless they
are in some other form of imminent danger (the most common example given was a burning
vehicle).

Bob Martin wrote:
RapidRonnie wrote:
I don't think Richard Van Grunsven puts a lot of crashworthiness
effort in the RVs, either. They do fly better than Bede designs
though.


The one guy I know of to crash an RV hit a large concrete block and
flipped completely over. He broke the canopy open and crawled out with
minor injuries. The airplane (RV-6A) was essentially a total writeoff
though.

Unfortunately, he died of a heart attack a couple years ago.

As far as extracting someone from a wreck, I was taught to never move
someone unless they are in some other form of imminent danger (the most
common example given was a burning vehicle).

Right on, and one other thing that is relevant, if loss of life isn't
imminent, burns will heal, a severed spinal cord probably won't. That is
why accident rescues should be left to professionals, not bystanders.
But then hindsight is easy to use, forsight is almost impossible, and
the current situation almost always seems more critical than it is.

YMMV

Back to lurking.

George

On Tue, 22 May 2007 02:40:11 GMT, George wrote:

Bob Martin wrote:
RapidRonnie wrote:
I don't think Richard Van Grunsven puts a lot of crashworthiness
effort in the RVs, either. They do fly better than Bede designs
though.


The one guy I know of to crash an RV hit a large concrete block and
flipped completely over. He broke the canopy open and crawled out with
minor injuries. The airplane (RV-6A) was essentially a total writeoff
though.

Unfortunately, he died of a heart attack a couple years ago.

As far as extracting someone from a wreck, I was taught to never move
someone unless they are in some other form of imminent danger (the most
common example given was a burning vehicle).

Right on, and one other thing that is relevant, if loss of life isn't
imminent, burns will heal, a severed spinal cord probably won't. That is
why accident rescues should be left to professionals, not bystanders.
But then hindsight is easy to use, forsight is almost impossible, and
the current situation almost always seems more critical than it is.

YMMV

my mileage does vary.
skin burns are superficial. lung tissue burns are often fatal.
the guys in the circumstances did absolutely follow the correct course
of actions. if he had been in the flames any longer the lung tissue
damage would have been fatal. as it is now he is alive but cannot
survive without oxygen supplementation.the spinal damage was already
done, sadly.

I'm proud of the efforts of my fellow pilots. they took some gutsy
actions at considerable personal risk.
.....and I often doubted that they ever had it in them.

Stealth Pilot
member of the Sport Aircraft Builders Club of Western Australia.

Stealth Pilot wrote:
On Tue, 22 May 2007 02:40:11 GMT, George wrote:

Bob Martin wrote:
RapidRonnie wrote:
I don't think Richard Van Grunsven puts a lot of crashworthiness
effort in the RVs, either. They do fly better than Bede designs
though.

The one guy I know of to crash an RV hit a large concrete block and
flipped completely over. He broke the canopy open and crawled out with
minor injuries. The airplane (RV-6A) was essentially a total writeoff
though.

Unfortunately, he died of a heart attack a couple years ago.

As far as extracting someone from a wreck, I was taught to never move
someone unless they are in some other form of imminent danger (the most
common example given was a burning vehicle).
Right on, and one other thing that is relevant, if loss of life isn't
imminent, burns will heal, a severed spinal cord probably won't. That is
why accident rescues should be left to professionals, not bystanders.
But then hindsight is easy to use, forsight is almost impossible, and
the current situation almost always seems more critical than it is.

YMMV

my mileage does vary.
skin burns are superficial. lung tissue burns are often fatal.
the guys in the circumstances did absolutely follow the correct course
of actions. if he had been in the flames any longer the lung tissue
damage would have been fatal. as it is now he is alive but cannot
survive without oxygen supplementation.the spinal damage was already
done, sadly.

I'm proud of the efforts of my fellow pilots. they took some gutsy
actions at considerable personal risk.
....and I often doubted that they ever had it in them.

Stealth Pilot
member of the Sport Aircraft Builders Club of Western Australia.

Thanks for the "rest of the story," that wasn't readily apparent in the
news write up. That makes it a different story all together. But I stand
by my "if loss of life isn't imminent" comment, from your comments
apparently it WAS imminent, it just didn't show in the text or pics.
And you are right, lung tissue is the one soft tissue that is as fragile
as a spinal cord, gotta have it. Glad your fellow pilots got him out of
there alive.

George

Stealth,

Do you know if this was a compressive spine injury? I've read a bit
about German Me-163 pilots being killed by using the wrong landing
skid setting. It seems that if you don't unlock the skid, that ship
would land hard enough to crush vertibrae (sp?) I've also read about a
particular early model ultralight, don't know the type, that used
nothing more than a canvas sling for a seat. On hard landing, pilots
would impact the Earth with their backsides causing spinal injuries
and/or death. Ditto several incidents of paraglider pilots, who fly
supine, impacting terrain.

I may be the only one on the NG with a plane that WAS designed to
crash. The elevator was placed in front of the wing because Wilbur
Wright wanted as much structure in front of him as possible when the
enevitable crash occurred. The rudder also hinges up in pantograph
fashion to help prevent damage. Of course, after 10 seconds in the
cradle, you too would be convinced that a Wright machine can kill you
in at least 100 ways. I'm still not entirely convinced that I want to
try flying it.

Harry

("Stealth Pilot" wrote)
I'm proud of the efforts of my fellow pilots. they took some gutsy
actions at considerable personal risk.
....and I often doubted that they ever had it in them.

Stealth Pilot
member of the Sport Aircraft Builders Club of Western Australia.


....and proud you should be!


Montblack