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#1
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![]() "George" wrote in message t... After the pics of how he was extricated I think we can explain the "spinal injuries." George And exactly how would you have extracted him the small cockpit of a burning BD-5? Jaws of death after the fire was out? Wait for a hoist? My guess is that the "spinal injuries" occured on impact. The BD-5's cockpit design offers little to no pilot protection. |
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On May 21, 8:12 am, "Wayne Paul" wrote:
"George" wrote in message t... After the pics of how he was extricated I think we can explain the "spinal injuries." George And exactly how would you have extracted him the small cockpit of a burning BD-5? Jaws of death after the fire was out? Wait for a hoist? My guess is that the "spinal injuries" occured on impact. The BD-5's cockpit design offers little to no pilot protection. Jim Bede openly felt that was unnecessary because most BD-5s would never fly or if they did would either only fly a few hours and be junked when the owner died or would crash so badly it would make little difference how he built it. I don't think Richard Van Grunsven puts a lot of crashworthiness effort in the RVs, either. They do fly better than Bede designs though. |
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Earlier, RapidRonnie wrote:
Jim Bede openly felt that was unnecessary because most BD-5s would never fly or if they did would either only fly a few hours and be junked when the owner died or would crash so badly it would make little difference how he built it. If Bede was "Open" about that, you should have no trouble providing a cite for that assertion. Please do so. Thanks, Bob K. |
#4
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![]() "RapidRonnie" wrote in message oups.com... On May 21, 8:12 am, "Wayne Paul" wrote: My guess is that the "spinal injuries" occured on impact. The BD-5's cockpit design offers little to no pilot protection. Jim Bede openly felt that was unnecessary because most BD-5s would never fly or if they did would either only fly a few hours and be junked when the owner died or would crash so badly it would make little difference how he built it. I don't think Richard Van Grunsven puts a lot of crashworthiness effort in the RVs, either. They do fly better than Bede designs though. It wasn't my attempt to imply the crashworthiness of the BD-5 is less then other homebuilts. It was simply to affirm the primary spinal injury was caused by the impact. I am sure my HP-14 sailplane isn't much better. I too, for all practical purposes, am sitting directly on the belly skin. (http://www.soaridaho.com/photogaller.../17900_MSL.jpg) (http://tinyurl.com/2esvov) I am sure a gear-up hard landing would not be good for my previousely injured spine. Wayne HP-14 "6F" http://www.soaridaho.com/ |
#5
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RapidRonnie wrote:
I don't think Richard Van Grunsven puts a lot of crashworthiness effort in the RVs, either. They do fly better than Bede designs though. The one guy I know of to crash an RV hit a large concrete block and flipped completely over. He broke the canopy open and crawled out with minor injuries. The airplane (RV-6A) was essentially a total writeoff though. Unfortunately, he died of a heart attack a couple years ago. As far as extracting someone from a wreck, I was taught to never move someone unless they are in some other form of imminent danger (the most common example given was a burning vehicle). |
#6
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Bob Martin wrote:
RapidRonnie wrote: I don't think Richard Van Grunsven puts a lot of crashworthiness effort in the RVs, either. They do fly better than Bede designs though. The one guy I know of to crash an RV hit a large concrete block and flipped completely over. He broke the canopy open and crawled out with minor injuries. The airplane (RV-6A) was essentially a total writeoff though. Unfortunately, he died of a heart attack a couple years ago. As far as extracting someone from a wreck, I was taught to never move someone unless they are in some other form of imminent danger (the most common example given was a burning vehicle). Right on, and one other thing that is relevant, if loss of life isn't imminent, burns will heal, a severed spinal cord probably won't. That is why accident rescues should be left to professionals, not bystanders. But then hindsight is easy to use, forsight is almost impossible, and the current situation almost always seems more critical than it is. YMMV Back to lurking. George |
#7
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On Tue, 22 May 2007 02:40:11 GMT, George wrote:
Bob Martin wrote: RapidRonnie wrote: I don't think Richard Van Grunsven puts a lot of crashworthiness effort in the RVs, either. They do fly better than Bede designs though. The one guy I know of to crash an RV hit a large concrete block and flipped completely over. He broke the canopy open and crawled out with minor injuries. The airplane (RV-6A) was essentially a total writeoff though. Unfortunately, he died of a heart attack a couple years ago. As far as extracting someone from a wreck, I was taught to never move someone unless they are in some other form of imminent danger (the most common example given was a burning vehicle). Right on, and one other thing that is relevant, if loss of life isn't imminent, burns will heal, a severed spinal cord probably won't. That is why accident rescues should be left to professionals, not bystanders. But then hindsight is easy to use, forsight is almost impossible, and the current situation almost always seems more critical than it is. YMMV my mileage does vary. skin burns are superficial. lung tissue burns are often fatal. the guys in the circumstances did absolutely follow the correct course of actions. if he had been in the flames any longer the lung tissue damage would have been fatal. as it is now he is alive but cannot survive without oxygen supplementation.the spinal damage was already done, sadly. I'm proud of the efforts of my fellow pilots. they took some gutsy actions at considerable personal risk. .....and I often doubted that they ever had it in them. Stealth Pilot member of the Sport Aircraft Builders Club of Western Australia. |
#8
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Stealth Pilot wrote:
On Tue, 22 May 2007 02:40:11 GMT, George wrote: Bob Martin wrote: RapidRonnie wrote: I don't think Richard Van Grunsven puts a lot of crashworthiness effort in the RVs, either. They do fly better than Bede designs though. The one guy I know of to crash an RV hit a large concrete block and flipped completely over. He broke the canopy open and crawled out with minor injuries. The airplane (RV-6A) was essentially a total writeoff though. Unfortunately, he died of a heart attack a couple years ago. As far as extracting someone from a wreck, I was taught to never move someone unless they are in some other form of imminent danger (the most common example given was a burning vehicle). Right on, and one other thing that is relevant, if loss of life isn't imminent, burns will heal, a severed spinal cord probably won't. That is why accident rescues should be left to professionals, not bystanders. But then hindsight is easy to use, forsight is almost impossible, and the current situation almost always seems more critical than it is. YMMV my mileage does vary. skin burns are superficial. lung tissue burns are often fatal. the guys in the circumstances did absolutely follow the correct course of actions. if he had been in the flames any longer the lung tissue damage would have been fatal. as it is now he is alive but cannot survive without oxygen supplementation.the spinal damage was already done, sadly. I'm proud of the efforts of my fellow pilots. they took some gutsy actions at considerable personal risk. ....and I often doubted that they ever had it in them. Stealth Pilot member of the Sport Aircraft Builders Club of Western Australia. Thanks for the "rest of the story," that wasn't readily apparent in the news write up. That makes it a different story all together. But I stand by my "if loss of life isn't imminent" comment, from your comments apparently it WAS imminent, it just didn't show in the text or pics. And you are right, lung tissue is the one soft tissue that is as fragile as a spinal cord, gotta have it. Glad your fellow pilots got him out of there alive. George |
#9
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Stealth,
Do you know if this was a compressive spine injury? I've read a bit about German Me-163 pilots being killed by using the wrong landing skid setting. It seems that if you don't unlock the skid, that ship would land hard enough to crush vertibrae (sp?) I've also read about a particular early model ultralight, don't know the type, that used nothing more than a canvas sling for a seat. On hard landing, pilots would impact the Earth with their backsides causing spinal injuries and/or death. Ditto several incidents of paraglider pilots, who fly supine, impacting terrain. I may be the only one on the NG with a plane that WAS designed to crash. The elevator was placed in front of the wing because Wilbur Wright wanted as much structure in front of him as possible when the enevitable crash occurred. The rudder also hinges up in pantograph fashion to help prevent damage. Of course, after 10 seconds in the cradle, you too would be convinced that a Wright machine can kill you in at least 100 ways. I'm still not entirely convinced that I want to try flying it. Harry |
#10
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("Stealth Pilot" wrote)
I'm proud of the efforts of my fellow pilots. they took some gutsy actions at considerable personal risk. ....and I often doubted that they ever had it in them. Stealth Pilot member of the Sport Aircraft Builders Club of Western Australia. ....and proud you should be! Montblack |
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