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On Sat, 26 May 2007 07:25:49 -0500, Dan wrote:

Assuming the hangar in question was locked that should be enough to
protect any property from being stolen. A competent burglar can get into
most safes and buildings if he is determined to do so.

When you think about it, though, a hangar could be more secure than a typical
home. Entry to a house can be attained with no further investment than a stone
through a window. The hangars at my airport have only a single point of
entry...no glass to smash, no patio doors to lift off the track, not even wooden
door jambs to splinter. Mind you, the locking mechanism on the door isn't the
greatest, but it at least gives only ONE point the occupant has to upgrade to
increase security.

Plus, larger airports often have full-time security contingents.

In my case I have a gun safe, but I shouldn't need it since I live
alone and secure my house when I am not home. If South Africa holds the
gun owner as much as or more responsible than the burglar then something
is wrong there.

It's a swing of the pendulum a bit far in the opposite direction, but it does
have its attractions. One of the anti-gun arguments here in the US is that the
weapons purchased by law-abiding citizens too often end up in the hands of
criminals; here's a way to fight that. Properly securing one's weapons is the
hallmark of a responsible gun owner.

It's matter of degree, of course. If the gunowner can show forced doors and
busted safe, I would figure he or she had taken adequate steps to protect the
weapons. If the owner leaves his F150 in a dark tavern parking lot with a rack
of guns in plain sight in the rear window, that's another thing.

Ron Wanttaja

Not all hangars are that secure... I used to keep my RV-6 in a hangar
at a local airfield. Brand new hangars with a "man door" in one end of
the main slider doors. The man door lock could easily be opened by
simply reaching through the opening at the end of the main hangar door.
The fire department wouldn't let us put a keyed deadbolt on the door
unless we kept the key IN THE LOCK, accessible just as before by
reaching inside the opening...

However, to show how stupid some people are, evidence was found one day
where someone had tried to pry off the lock on the main sliders. Don't
how long they worked on it but if they had simply reached into the end
opening they could have been in the hangar in seconds.

BTW, I'm NOT naming the airfield as I'm sure they haven't changed
anything and the hangars are still "accessible".

John

Ron Wanttaja wrote:
On Sat, 26 May 2007 07:25:49 -0500, Dan wrote:

Assuming the hangar in question was locked that should be enough to
protect any property from being stolen. A competent burglar can get into
most safes and buildings if he is determined to do so.

When you think about it, though, a hangar could be more secure than a typical
home. Entry to a house can be attained with no further investment than a stone
through a window. The hangars at my airport have only a single point of
entry...no glass to smash, no patio doors to lift off the track, not even wooden
door jambs to splinter. Mind you, the locking mechanism on the door isn't the
greatest, but it at least gives only ONE point the occupant has to upgrade to
increase security.

Plus, larger airports often have full-time security contingents.

In my case I have a gun safe, but I shouldn't need it since I live
alone and secure my house when I am not home. If South Africa holds the
gun owner as much as or more responsible than the burglar then something
is wrong there.

It's a swing of the pendulum a bit far in the opposite direction, but it does
have its attractions. One of the anti-gun arguments here in the US is that the
weapons purchased by law-abiding citizens too often end up in the hands of
criminals; here's a way to fight that. Properly securing one's weapons is the
hallmark of a responsible gun owner.

It's matter of degree, of course. If the gunowner can show forced doors and
busted safe, I would figure he or she had taken adequate steps to protect the
weapons. If the owner leaves his F150 in a dark tavern parking lot with a rack
of guns in plain sight in the rear window, that's another thing.

Ron Wanttaja

John Ammeter wrote:
Not all hangars are that secure... I used to keep my RV-6 in a hangar
at a local airfield. Brand new hangars with a "man door" in one end of
the main slider doors. The man door lock could easily be opened by
simply reaching through the opening at the end of the main hangar door.
The fire department wouldn't let us put a keyed deadbolt on the door
unless we kept the key IN THE LOCK, accessible just as before by
reaching inside the opening...


So? Remove the key when vacating the building. I'm sure the fire
department just wanted to ensure no one would be trapped inside in the
event of a fire. Leave the key in when you are inside, remove it when
you go home.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

"Dan" wrote in message
...

So? Remove the key when vacating the building. I'm sure the fire
department just wanted to ensure no one would be trapped inside in the
event of a fire. Leave the key in when you are inside, remove it when you
go home.

I'll have to agree with you on that, Dan. The uniform building and fire
codes do not prohibit keyed deadbolts on an aircraft hanger unless the
building is occupied, IIRC. If the fire inspector required a key on the
inside at all times, I'd ask him to show me chapter and verse.

Rich S.
Certified Uniform Fire Code Inspector (1985-88)

Ron Wanttaja wrote:

When you think about it, though, a hangar could be more secure than a
typical home. Entry to a house can be attained with no further investment
than a stone through a window. The hangars at my airport have only a
single point of entry...no glass to smash, no patio doors to lift off
the track, not even wooden door jambs to splinter. Mind you, the
locking mechanism on the door isn't the greatest, but it at least
gives only ONE point the occupant has to upgrade to increase security.

My current hangar is a steel structure with sheet metal siding. Its
your typical T-hangar set-up, with internal walls (sheet metal again)
separating the individual units.

With a cordless drill and (maybe) some sheet metal snips I'm sure I
could be inside my hangar unit within 15 minutes just by removing
some sheet metal. Once I was inside a unit, I could work my way to
all the other units without anyone noticing. Who would suspect the
whine of a drill or a rattle of sheet metal around a hangar?

(uhh, to any black hats -- I am in the middle of a move and so
my hangar is empty at the moment)

--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Hood River, OR (soon to be Boise, ID)

On Sat, 26 May 2007 20:59:02 +0000 (UTC), Frank Stutzman
wrote:

With a cordless drill and (maybe) some sheet metal snips I'm sure I
could be inside my hangar unit within 15 minutes just by removing
some sheet metal. Once I was inside a unit, I could work my way to
all the other units without anyone noticing. Who would suspect the
whine of a drill or a rattle of sheet metal around a hangar?

A piece of cinder block would get you into a private residence in far less than
15 minutes....and the batteries never go dead. :-)

And your typical thieves (who really aren't that bright to start with) are more
likely to find quickly-fencable items in the private residence.

I'm starting to wonder if the hangars were targeted *because* of the guns.

Ron Wanttaja

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote

I'm starting to wonder if the hangars were targeted *because* of the guns.

Bingo!

Someone knew they were there, and went in to get them.
--
Jim in NC

"Frank Stutzman" wrote in message
...

My current hangar is a steel structure with sheet metal siding. Its
your typical T-hangar set-up, with internal walls (sheet metal again)
separating the individual units.

With a cordless drill and (maybe) some sheet metal snips I'm sure I
could be inside my hangar unit within 15 minutes just by removing
some sheet metal. Once I was inside a unit, I could work my way to
all the other units without anyone noticing. Who would suspect the
whine of a drill or a rattle of sheet metal around a hangar?


Everyone might check their own hangers to be sure, but many are a 2 second
trip through a walk in door, even with a deadbolt.

A lot of the door facings on metal buildings can be sprung far enough with a
tire tool, that you can get in quicker that way than with a key. The facing
will usually even spring back completely, leaving very little evidence that
the building has been entered.