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chris writes:

Maybe that's why our police don't kill people half as often - there's
almost no chance the guy behind the wheel has a gun, so no need to
shoot him if he comes at you???

This is certainly true in France. The average person has no gun, so when you
are stopped by the side of the road, if you open the door or get out of the
car, you don't have to worry about being shot. At the same time, the cops are
reasonably sure that anyone who pulls a gun is a hardened crook, and not an
innocent person exercising his right to carry a firearm. Thus, they don't
have to constantly worry about having to draw and shoot in normal situations,
and they don't have to ask themselves if someone pointing a gun at them is
just a regular guy protecting himself.

On May 28, 10:08 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
chris writes:
Maybe that's why our police don't kill people half as often - there's
almost no chance the guy behind the wheel has a gun, so no need to
shoot him if he comes at you???

This is certainly true in France. The average person has no gun, so when you
are stopped by the side of the road, if you open the door or get out of the
car, you don't have to worry about being shot. At the same time, the cops are
reasonably sure that anyone who pulls a gun is a hardened crook, and not an
innocent person exercising his right to carry a firearm. Thus, they don't
have to constantly worry about having to draw and shoot in normal situations,
and they don't have to ask themselves if someone pointing a gun at them is
just a regular guy protecting himself.

Are we saying that in the US you can't get out of the car when pulled
over by the police?? I have been pulled over a few times here and
always got out.. Figured if I was in trouble I shouldn't make him
come to me or I might **** him off even more :-)

chris wrote:
Are we saying that in the US you can't get out of the car when pulled
over by the police?? I have been pulled over a few times here and
always got out.. Figured if I was in trouble I shouldn't make him
come to me or I might **** him off even more :-)

Whether to get out or not seems to vary with the circumstances and there
seem to be some different suggestions:

http://justice.adanaslaw.com/lawyer-...y-1122100.html

chris wrote:
On May 28, 10:08 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
chris writes:
Maybe that's why our police don't kill people half as often - there's
almost no chance the guy behind the wheel has a gun, so no need to
shoot him if he comes at you???
This is certainly true in France. The average person has no gun, so when you
are stopped by the side of the road, if you open the door or get out of the
car, you don't have to worry about being shot. At the same time, the cops are
reasonably sure that anyone who pulls a gun is a hardened crook, and not an
innocent person exercising his right to carry a firearm. Thus, they don't
have to constantly worry about having to draw and shoot in normal situations,
and they don't have to ask themselves if someone pointing a gun at them is
just a regular guy protecting himself.

Are we saying that in the US you can't get out of the car when pulled
over by the police?? I have been pulled over a few times here and
always got out.. Figured if I was in trouble I shouldn't make him
come to me or I might **** him off even more :-)


It is highly inadvisable to get out of the car. You should remain in
the car, roll down you window and then keep your hands on the steering
wheel.

Getting out and approaching the officer will really tick him/her off.

Matt

On May 28, 11:15 am, Matt Whiting wrote:
chris wrote:
On May 28, 10:08 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
chris writes:
Maybe that's why our police don't kill people half as often - there's
almost no chance the guy behind the wheel has a gun, so no need to
shoot him if he comes at you???
This is certainly true in France. The average person has no gun, so when you
are stopped by the side of the road, if you open the door or get out of the
car, you don't have to worry about being shot. At the same time, the cops are
reasonably sure that anyone who pulls a gun is a hardened crook, and not an
innocent person exercising his right to carry a firearm. Thus, they don't
have to constantly worry about having to draw and shoot in normal situations,
and they don't have to ask themselves if someone pointing a gun at them is
just a regular guy protecting himself.

Are we saying that in the US you can't get out of the car when pulled
over by the police?? I have been pulled over a few times here and
always got out.. Figured if I was in trouble I shouldn't make him
come to me or I might **** him off even more :-)

It is highly inadvisable to get out of the car. You should remain in
the car, roll down you window and then keep your hands on the steering
wheel.

Getting out and approaching the officer will really tick him/her off.

Matt- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why???

chris wrote:
On May 28, 11:15 am, Matt Whiting wrote:
chris wrote:
On May 28, 10:08 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
chris writes:
Maybe that's why our police don't kill people half as often - there's
almost no chance the guy behind the wheel has a gun, so no need to
shoot him if he comes at you???
This is certainly true in France. The average person has no gun, so when you
are stopped by the side of the road, if you open the door or get out of the
car, you don't have to worry about being shot. At the same time, the cops are
reasonably sure that anyone who pulls a gun is a hardened crook, and not an
innocent person exercising his right to carry a firearm. Thus, they don't
have to constantly worry about having to draw and shoot in normal situations,
and they don't have to ask themselves if someone pointing a gun at them is
just a regular guy protecting himself.
Are we saying that in the US you can't get out of the car when pulled
over by the police?? I have been pulled over a few times here and
always got out.. Figured if I was in trouble I shouldn't make him
come to me or I might **** him off even more :-)
It is highly inadvisable to get out of the car. You should remain in
the car, roll down you window and then keep your hands on the steering
wheel.

Getting out and approaching the officer will really tick him/her off.

Matt- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why???


The officer has no idea who is in the car, what they may be high on or
what they may have just done. We had a local police officer killed a
year or so ago when he pulled over a car with three people who had just
robbed a bank. Unfortunately, the call had not yet been dispatched and
he wasn't aware that the robbery had just been committed.

It is safer for the officer if the car occupants remain inside until
they have been identified and a radio check made for any outstanding
warrants.

99 out of 100 stops are routine, but it is the 1% that can get an
officer killed. Having the occupants remain in the car gives them more
control of the situation until they have it scoped out fully.

Matt

On May 28, 12:19 pm, Matt Whiting wrote:
chris wrote:
On May 28, 11:15 am, Matt Whiting wrote:
chris wrote:
On May 28, 10:08 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
chris writes:
Maybe that's why our police don't kill people half as often - there's
almost no chance the guy behind the wheel has a gun, so no need to
shoot him if he comes at you???
This is certainly true in France. The average person has no gun, so when you
are stopped by the side of the road, if you open the door or get out of the
car, you don't have to worry about being shot. At the same time, the cops are
reasonably sure that anyone who pulls a gun is a hardened crook, and not an
innocent person exercising his right to carry a firearm. Thus, they don't
have to constantly worry about having to draw and shoot in normal situations,
and they don't have to ask themselves if someone pointing a gun at them is
just a regular guy protecting himself.
Are we saying that in the US you can't get out of the car when pulled
over by the police?? I have been pulled over a few times here and
always got out.. Figured if I was in trouble I shouldn't make him
come to me or I might **** him off even more :-)
It is highly inadvisable to get out of the car. You should remain in
the car, roll down you window and then keep your hands on the steering
wheel.

Getting out and approaching the officer will really tick him/her off.

Matt- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Why???

The officer has no idea who is in the car, what they may be high on or
what they may have just done. We had a local police officer killed a
year or so ago when he pulled over a car with three people who had just
robbed a bank. Unfortunately, the call had not yet been dispatched and
he wasn't aware that the robbery had just been committed.

It is safer for the officer if the car occupants remain inside until
they have been identified and a radio check made for any outstanding
warrants.

99 out of 100 stops are routine, but it is the 1% that can get an
officer killed. Having the occupants remain in the car gives them more
control of the situation until they have it scoped out fully.

Matt- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I see.. I sort of thought if you sat in your car the police can't see
if you've got a weapon on you until they're right up to your window
but if you get out and stand up they can see your hands are empty. Or
am I talking crap again?

chris wrote:

I see.. I sort of thought if you sat in your car the police can't see
if you've got a weapon on you until they're right up to your window
but if you get out and stand up they can see your hands are empty. Or
am I talking crap again?


You might be wearing a suicide bomb belt. That is far more fearsome
than a handgun.

Matt

Matt Whiting wrote:
99 out of 100 stops are routine, but it is the 1% that can get an
officer killed. Having the occupants remain in the car gives them
more control of the situation until they have it scoped out fully.

Your stats are way off. Less than 1 in 300,000 stops are likely to get an
officer killed.

The supporting math: 54 officers died nationwide in shootings in _all_
aspects of their work[1] in 2006, including shootings not related to
traffic stops. There were ~16.7 million traffic stops reported nationwide
in 2002[2]. Assuming the stats between 2002 and 2006 did not change
significantly, that yields a rate of less than one death every 300,000
stops. Ironically, according to reference [1]:

"[...] traffic-related incidents claimed the lives of more officers (73)
than shootings (54) or any other cause of death. Of the 73 officers who
died in traffic-related incidents, 47 were killed in automobile crashes, 15
were struck by vehicles, nine died in motorcycle crashes, and two died in
bicycle crashes."

Obligatory aviation content from that same reference:

"Other causes of deaths included job-related illnesses (18), aircraft
crashes (3), beating (1), stabbing (1) and terrorist attack (1). Five of
the officers killed during 2006 were women."

Aircraft killed more cops in 2006 than terrorists! (In the U.S. ....)

[1] http://www.nleomf.org/media/press/LODYearend06.htm
[2] http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/cdsp02.pdf

Jim Logajan wrote:
Matt Whiting wrote:
99 out of 100 stops are routine, but it is the 1% that can get an
officer killed. Having the occupants remain in the car gives them
more control of the situation until they have it scoped out fully.

Your stats are way off. Less than 1 in 300,000 stops are likely to get an
officer killed.

They weren't stats. I was simply throwing out numbers to make a point
that the routine far outweighs the bad encounters.

Matt