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"Chris" wrote in message
...

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
chris wrote:
On May 28, 8:58 am, "Maxwell" wrote:
"Martin Hotze" wrote in message

...

Maybe that's why our police don't kill people half as often - there's
almost no chance the guy behind the wheel has a gun, so no need to
shoot him if he comes at you???

It must suck to be in your country and be defenseless against criminals.

I have a better chance of winning the lottery than being killed by a gun
where I live. The UK had 58 deaths from guns in 2005/6, 25 from handguns
in a population of 60m.

I thought you said you had such strict gun control - how did you manage 58
killed?

BTW, you might know that the manner in which the UK keeps statistics is a
downright fraud.

And England had fewer gun killings when the had virtually ZERO gun control.

Go figure

Indeed, go figure. Go figure as well that Switzerland had even fewer deaths
than the UK and every home is REQURED to have guns.

Now, just because YOU have criminal tendencies doesn't mean every one else
does.

On May 29, 1:23 am, "Matt Barrow"
wrote:
"Chris" wrote in message

...







"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
chris wrote:
On May 28, 8:58 am, "Maxwell" wrote:
"Martin Hotze" wrote in message

m...

Maybe that's why our police don't kill people half as often - there's
almost no chance the guy behind the wheel has a gun, so no need to
shoot him if he comes at you???

It must suck to be in your country and be defenseless against criminals.

I have a better chance of winning the lottery than being killed by a gun
where I live. The UK had 58 deaths from guns in 2005/6, 25 from handguns
in a population of 60m.

I thought you said you had such strict gun control - how did you manage 58
killed?

BTW, you might know that the manner in which the UK keeps statistics is a
downright fraud.

And England had fewer gun killings when the had virtually ZERO gun control.

Go figure

Indeed, go figure. Go figure as well that Switzerland had even fewer deaths
than the UK and every home is REQURED to have guns.

Now, just because YOU have criminal tendencies doesn't mean every one else
does.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's some other guy who also happens to be called Chris. He's
obviously from the UK, I am from NZ

chris wrote:
On May 29, 1:23 am, "Matt Barrow"
wrote:
"Chris" wrote in message

...







"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
chris wrote:
On May 28, 8:58 am, "Maxwell" wrote:
"Martin Hotze" wrote in message
...
Maybe that's why our police don't kill people half as often - there's
almost no chance the guy behind the wheel has a gun, so no need to
shoot him if he comes at you???
It must suck to be in your country and be defenseless against criminals.
I have a better chance of winning the lottery than being killed by a gun
where I live. The UK had 58 deaths from guns in 2005/6, 25 from handguns
in a population of 60m.
I thought you said you had such strict gun control - how did you manage 58
killed?

BTW, you might know that the manner in which the UK keeps statistics is a
downright fraud.

And England had fewer gun killings when the had virtually ZERO gun control.

Go figure
Indeed, go figure. Go figure as well that Switzerland had even fewer deaths
than the UK and every home is REQURED to have guns.

Now, just because YOU have criminal tendencies doesn't mean every one else
does.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's some other guy who also happens to be called Chris. He's
obviously from the UK, I am from NZ


Well, both of your countries have obscenely high crime rates so if
doesn't matter much which one we are talking about.

Matt

"Matt Barrow" wrote in message
news

"Chris" wrote in message
...

"Matt Whiting" wrote in message
...
chris wrote:
On May 28, 8:58 am, "Maxwell" wrote:
"Martin Hotze" wrote in message

...

Maybe that's why our police don't kill people half as often - there's
almost no chance the guy behind the wheel has a gun, so no need to
shoot him if he comes at you???

It must suck to be in your country and be defenseless against criminals.

I have a better chance of winning the lottery than being killed by a gun
where I live. The UK had 58 deaths from guns in 2005/6, 25 from handguns
in a population of 60m.

I thought you said you had such strict gun control - how did you manage 58
killed?

BTW, you might know that the manner in which the UK keeps statistics is a
downright fraud.


Explain how the statistics are a fraud. Is it because you lost the argument?
Only handguns are banned in the UK. Shotguns and rifles are licenced. Air
guns are also legal.

As for Switzerland, they don't go out and murder people, they just commit
suicide at about the same rate as the US. It might be to do with the
proximity of a weapon.

Anyway, the US people kill as many in two days with firearms as are killed
with firearms in three years in the UK .

Gun deaths per 100,000 population (for the year indicated):
Homicide Suicide
Unintentional

USA 4.08 (1999) 6.08 (1999) 0.42
(1999)

Canada 0.54 (1999) 2.65 (1997) 0.15
(1997)

Switzerland 0.50 (1999) 5.78 (1998) -

Scotland 0.12 (1999) 0.27 (1999) -

England/Wales 0.12 (1999/00) 0.22 (1999) 0.01 (1999)

Japan 0.04* (1998) 0.04 (1995) 0.01
(1997)

(Source: Harvard Research Center)



STATISTICS ON POLICE USE OF FIREARMS 2005/2006 IN ENGLAND AND WALES

The statistics for 1 April 2005 to 31 March 2006 show that the number of
police operations in which firearms were authorised was 18,891.

The Police discharged a conventional firearm in 9 incidents. In addition,
the Police discharged baton rounds or AEP in 14 incidents and fired Taser in
89 incidents.

There are a total of 6584 authorised firearm officers in England and Wales.
There are 43 police forces in England and Wales comprising 140,563 full-time
equivalent police officers and a 10,988-strong special constabulary of
part-time volunteers.

Martin Hotze wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2007 06:23:47 -0700, Matt Barrow wrote:

Indeed, go figure. Go figure as well that Switzerland had even fewer deaths
than the UK and every home is REQURED to have guns.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

hmm, Switzerland is a neighboring country. I didn't knew that. Do you have
some sources for this claim? Please from .ch domains.
You might mean that men on reserve from the swiss military are required to
have their equipment (and gun/riffle/??) at home.

Every able bodied male in Switzerland gets basic military training
and is sent home with their personal weapon and a supply of ammunition.

The ammunition is subject to inspection, but ammunition for practice
is readily available and subsidized by the government.

Government subsidized ammunition obtained at a range is supposed to
be used at the range, but this is hardly ever enforced.

Ammunition is also readily available at retail.

At the expiration of the required term of service (age 30 or 34 depending
on rank), the individual can choose to keep their weapon.

There are numerous ranges in Switzerland and target shooting is a
common sport.

All this can be easily found with a Google search.

The fact that virtually every Swiss household has at least one firearm
per adult male yet has a extremely low crime rate is something the
anti-firearms people don't like to talk about.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

writes:

The fact that virtually every Swiss household has at least one firearm
per adult male yet has a extremely low crime rate is something the
anti-firearms people don't like to talk about.

I don't mind talking about it. The problem is that Americans are not Swiss,
and Americans are preoccupied and keenly interested in violence, whereas the
Swiss are not.

Martin Hotze wrote:
On Mon, 28 May 2007 06:23:47 -0700, Matt Barrow wrote:

Indeed, go figure. Go figure as well that Switzerland had even fewer
deaths than the UK and every home is REQURED to have guns.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

hmm, Switzerland is a neighboring country. I didn't knew that. Do you
have some sources for this claim? Please from .ch domains.
You might mean that men on reserve from the swiss military are
required to have their equipment (and gun/riffle/??) at home.

It goes deeper than that. See:

"Gun politics in Switzerland"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_pol...in_Switzerland
(Links to .ch web sites in the above article.)

"Switzerland and the gun"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1566715.stm

Regarding the U.S.: Since the United States was created by an act of
rebellion it seems reasonable to conclude that act lead to a natural
cultural predilection toward personal gun ownership. The U.S. also
originated on a colonial frontier where the gun was a necessary tool of
survival.

Martin Hotze wrote:


thanks for the links. hmm, I knew about the men off the military having
their waepons at home, but I didn't knew that it was that extreme there.

Extreme? Only extrem by your frame of reference.

Next time meeting people from Switzerland I have to ask them how this is
handled in every day life and if they already have a chance to turn down
military service (IIRC they had a vote on that).


Regarding the U.S.: Since the United States was created by an act of
rebellion it seems reasonable to conclude that act lead to a natural
cultural predilection toward personal gun ownership. The U.S. also
originated on a colonial frontier where the gun was a necessary tool of
survival.


yes, but this has been some hundred years now. ;-)


Actually it has been more than 200 years since the United states gained
its independence from England. The very first clash between British
troops and colonial Americans was precipitated by the intention of
the british troops to capture the amory at Lexington and Concord.
The Americans knew that if the British were successful in this that
their chances to defend their right to the freedoms they desired would
not have a chance to succed if they were disarmed.