Coordinated turns without rudder, and autopilots

"Dan" wrote in message
ups.com...
On May 28, 10:26 am, Andrew Sarangan wrote:
On May 28, 11:59 am, Luke Skywalker wrote:





On May 28, 8:11 am, Ron Natalie wrote:

Dan wrote:
On May 27, 5:44 pm, Mxsmanic wrote:
How do autopilots make coordinated turns even when they cannot
control the
rudder?

If they don't control the rudder, they do not make coordinated
turns!

--Dan

Boy we have the blind leading the blind here.

The whole point of that big vertical slab of metal sticking out of
the
ass-end of your airplane is to provide a natural tendency for the
aircraft to fly coordinated. The pedals are just there for the
outlying conditions (low speed, high AOA for example) and fine
adjustment.

Ron...

oh my goodness...get some time with a good book on the subject and
then a CFI.

Robert- Hide quoted text -

Ron is correct. The vertical fin makes the airplane weather-vane into
the wind, and that's what co-ordination is all about. The rudder is
there only to help the vertical stab do this job.

A perfect airplane will not need rudder.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So where is this perfect airplane? I don't know about you, but I need
the rudder pedals to fly the aircraft.

--Dan

Basically the vertical stabilizer is there for directional stability and to
control yaw; the rudder is there to change yaw. This is VERY basic, but you
can say that the rudder is there to keep the tail alligned with the nose
:-))
Rudder use to acheive the objective of keeping the tail lined up with the
nose can accurately be said to be relative to aircraft type and airspeed.
You need a fair amount of rudder to handle yawfor example in a typical light
general aviation type airplane to execute a coordinated turn entry and exit.
On the other hand however, in a T38, you can fly a complete aerobatic
sequence including point rolls with both feet planted firmly on the floor of
the rudder tunnels.
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques writes:

Rudder use to acheive the objective of keeping the tail lined up with the
nose can accurately be said to be relative to aircraft type and airspeed.
You need a fair amount of rudder to handle yawfor example in a typical light
general aviation type airplane to execute a coordinated turn entry and exit.

So how does the autopilot do it? As far as I understand, autopilots in small
aircraft don't generally have control over the rudder, and yet they can
execute coordinated turns.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Dudley Henriques writes:

Rudder use to acheive the objective of keeping the tail lined up with
the nose can accurately be said to be relative to aircraft type and
airspeed. You need a fair amount of rudder to handle yawfor example
in a typical light general aviation type airplane to execute a
coordinated turn entry and exit.

So how does the autopilot do it?

It doesn't, fjukkkwit.


bertie

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
Dudley Henriques writes:

Rudder use to acheive the objective of keeping the tail lined up with the
nose can accurately be said to be relative to aircraft type and airspeed.
You need a fair amount of rudder to handle yawfor example in a typical
light
general aviation type airplane to execute a coordinated turn entry and
exit.

So how does the autopilot do it? As far as I understand, autopilots in
small
aircraft don't generally have control over the rudder, and yet they can
execute coordinated turns.

What in the world makes you think that an autopilot can make a "coordinated"
turn without using the rudder if a pilot can't? That's complete and utter
nonsense.

If you have "observed" this then, either A) Your simulation falls a bit
short in terms of simulating how the simulated autopilot works - I assume
it's easier to program a simulated autopilot without adding the "make it
appear un-coordinated" feature. Or, B) You only think that the autopilot
does a much better job than a pilot does - perhaps you are a bit ham-fisted
with your simulation - without ever being in in airplane, it would be easy
to not realize what you are doing given the lack of feedback and the fact
that no one has ever "flown" with you - I find that I "overcontrol" when
flying a sim...

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com writes:

What in the world makes you think that an autopilot can make a "coordinated"
turn without using the rudder if a pilot can't?

Presumably a pilot can; I want to know how. And nobody has been able to tell
me thus far.

If you have "observed" this then, either A) Your simulation falls a bit
short in terms of simulating how the simulated autopilot works - I assume
it's easier to program a simulated autopilot without adding the "make it
appear un-coordinated" feature. Or, B) You only think that the autopilot
does a much better job than a pilot does - perhaps you are a bit ham-fisted
with your simulation - without ever being in in airplane, it would be easy
to not realize what you are doing given the lack of feedback and the fact
that no one has ever "flown" with you - I find that I "overcontrol" when
flying a sim...

Or (C) nobody here has a clue and nobody wants to admit it, even though their
argument among themselves makes it obvious.

Do you know how it's done, or don't you?

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com writes:

What in the world makes you think that an autopilot can make a
"coordinated"
turn without using the rudder if a pilot can't?

Presumably a pilot can; I want to know how. And nobody has been able to
tell
me thus far.

If you have "observed" this then, either A) Your simulation falls a bit
short in terms of simulating how the simulated autopilot works - I assume
it's easier to program a simulated autopilot without adding the "make it
appear un-coordinated" feature. Or, B) You only think that the autopilot
does a much better job than a pilot does - perhaps you are a bit
ham-fisted
with your simulation - without ever being in in airplane, it would be
easy
to not realize what you are doing given the lack of feedback and the fact
that no one has ever "flown" with you - I find that I "overcontrol" when
flying a sim...

Or (C) nobody here has a clue and nobody wants to admit it, even though
their
argument among themselves makes it obvious.

Do you know how it's done, or don't you?

BS, you're just trying to fuel the nit fest.

Mxsmanic wrote:
"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com writes:

What in the world makes you think that an autopilot can make a "coordinated"
turn without using the rudder if a pilot can't?

Presumably a pilot can; I want to know how. And nobody has been able to tell
me thus far.

If you have "observed" this then, either A) Your simulation falls a bit
short in terms of simulating how the simulated autopilot works - I assume
it's easier to program a simulated autopilot without adding the "make it
appear un-coordinated" feature. Or, B) You only think that the autopilot
does a much better job than a pilot does - perhaps you are a bit ham-fisted
with your simulation - without ever being in in airplane, it would be easy
to not realize what you are doing given the lack of feedback and the fact
that no one has ever "flown" with you - I find that I "overcontrol" when
flying a sim...

Or (C) nobody here has a clue and nobody wants to admit it, even though their
argument among themselves makes it obvious.

Do you know how it's done, or don't you?
Or D: Nobody wants to answer your question.

John Theune writes:

Or D: Nobody wants to answer your question.

Rest assured, if some of the most vocal posters here actually knew the correct
answer, their egos would compel them to immediately provide it for all to see.
It's much more satisfying to such people to post a correct answer than it is
for them to pretend they have the answer and just don't want to reveal it.

"Mxsmanic" wrote in message
...
John Theune writes:

Or D: Nobody wants to answer your question.

Rest assured, if some of the most vocal posters here actually knew the
correct
answer, their egos would compel them to immediately provide it for all to
see.
It's much more satisfying to such people to post a correct answer than it
is
for them to pretend they have the answer and just don't want to reveal it.

They you go, appeal to their egos!

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

John Theune writes:

Or D: Nobody wants to answer your question.

Rest assured, if some of the most vocal posters here actually knew the
correct answer, their egos would compel them to immediately provide it
for all to see.

Nope, I know and i'm not going to tell you because it would be a wast e of
time, wheras i get a great deal of enjoyment form calling you a fjukkwit.

Besides, some have actualy posted the correect answer and because of your
autistic view of the world you can't see it.

Fjukkwit.




Bertie