buy or rent a 2006 182

On Fri, 25 May 2007 19:14:32 -0400, Kyle Boatright wrote:

Beyond the equity issue, there is something to be said for being able to
schedule the aircraft at your convenience and for the ability to maintain
and upgrade the aircraft to your standards.

This is why I like the "compromise" of a club where all members are
owners. It has the best of rental and ownership characteristics; in fact
it looks like a large partnership over multiple aircraft (or perhaps
multiple single-airplane partnerships).

The members/owners control issues like MX, upgrades, paint schemes, etc.
Scheduling is, in theory, more complex than with a single-owner aircraft.
But as the number of aircraft in the fleet goes up, this becomes less of
an issue.

And with multiple aircraft, the impact of any given aircraft being down
for MX drops.

It's not the perfect replacement for single-ownership. You have to adjust
the seats, and there are limits on scheduling (ie. you cannot keep an
aircraft at your vacation home for "the season"). But it's also cost
effective at under 300 hours/year (or whatever number is considered the
proper break-even point nowadays {8^).

The final benefit is that you're never making choices in a vacuum; there
are always older and more seasoned members of whom to seek advice. It's a
terrific way to learn about the care and feeding of aircraft from people
that are just as invested as yourself.


- Andrew
http://flyingclub.org/

Andrew Gideon wrote:
The members/owners control issues like MX, upgrades, paint schemes, etc.
Scheduling is, in theory, more complex than with a single-owner aircraft.
But as the number of aircraft in the fleet goes up, this becomes less of
an issue.

That depends on how the club is structured.
Not all are as you describe above.

On Mon, 28 May 2007 13:31:32 -0400, john smith wrote:

Andrew Gideon wrote:
The members/owners control issues like MX, upgrades, paint schemes, etc.
Scheduling is, in theory, more complex than with a single-owner
aircraft. But as the number of aircraft in the fleet goes up, this
becomes less of an issue.

That depends on how the club is structured. Not all are as you describe
above.

Not all clubs are like this, true. But are not all clubs with members as
owners like this? I admit I don't know of all clubs laugh, but how
could owners not have at least a voice on such matters?

- Andrew

In article ,
Andrew Gideon wrote:

On Mon, 28 May 2007 13:31:32 -0400, john smith wrote:

Andrew Gideon wrote:
The members/owners control issues like MX, upgrades, paint schemes, etc.
Scheduling is, in theory, more complex than with a single-owner
aircraft. But as the number of aircraft in the fleet goes up, this
becomes less of an issue.

That depends on how the club is structured. Not all are as you describe
above.

Not all clubs are like this, true. But are not all clubs with members as
owners like this? I admit I don't know of all clubs laugh, but how
could owners not have at least a voice on such matters?

I am not a part-owner in either of the two clubs of which I am a member.
I simply rent the aircraft. All of the aircraft are lease-backs in one
club and the club is incorporated and the corporation owns the other.
There are nine airplanes in the one club and one in the other.

On Mon, 28 May 2007 17:57:38 -0400, john smith wrote:

I am not a part-owner in either of the two clubs of which I am a member.

So these clubs are not of the sort I've been discussing.

- Andrew

On May 28, 12:38 pm, Andrew Gideon wrote:
The members/owners control issues like MX, upgrades, paint schemes, etc.
Scheduling is, in theory, more complex than with a single-owner aircraft.

This is definitely the rub. Club flying is great, except for that
availability issue. owners can usually take their planes somewhere on
Memorial day weekend. Most club pilots can't, unless they planned way
ahead.

But as the number of aircraft in the fleet goes up, this becomes less of
an issue.

It's a question of how many members there are per plane. This may not
be even even across the club, for example my club has two Mooneys and
only about 20 pilots fly them, but over 50 vie for 2 172's. The
Mooney pilots think availability is great. The 172 pilots have a
different perspective.

And with multiple aircraft, the impact of any given aircraft being down
for MX drops.

This is a big plus. Another big plus is fleet variety. My club has
four aircraft types ranging from 152s to Mooneys. If you just want a
local sunset flight, you can fly a 152 for about $60/hr, if you are
going seriously cross country you can fly a Mooney for over twice as
much per hour. You seldom have to compromise the airplane for the
mission.


It's not the perfect replacement for single-ownership. You have to adjust
the seats, and there are limits on scheduling (ie. you cannot keep an
aircraft at your vacation home for "the season"). But it's also cost
effective at under 300 hours/year (or whatever number is considered the
proper break-even point nowadays {8^).

Yes. My fixed aviation costs are under $100 a month --club dues and
XM fees for my GPS396. In a month when I don't fly much, I don't pay
much. Also I don't own an airplane I'd have to unload in a down
market if something happened like losing my medical, or job, etc.

The final benefit is that you're never making choices in a vacuum; there
are always older and more seasoned members of whom to seek advice.

This is a HUGE benefit to club flying.

On Tue, 29 May 2007 11:05:56 -0700, xyzzy wrote:

This is definitely the rub. Club flying is great, except for that
availability issue. owners can usually take their planes somewhere on
Memorial day weekend. Most club pilots can't, unless they planned way
ahead.

For whatever reason, our availability has been quite good. There was at
least one airplane available for me on short notice on Monday, for
example.

But, as I wrote, it's not the same as exclusive ownership. I had to
check, for example, rather than simply heading out to the airport.

[...]


[...]

And with multiple aircraft, the impact of any given aircraft being
down
for MX drops.

This is a big plus. Another big plus is fleet variety. My club has
four aircraft types ranging from 152s to Mooneys. If you just want a
local sunset flight, you can fly a 152 for about $60/hr, if you are
going seriously cross country you can fly a Mooney for over twice as
much per hour. You seldom have to compromise the airplane for the
mission.

I agree, but this is something that my club doesn't do as well as I'd
like. It's just 172s and 182s (with one R182). The club used to be more
diverse, but decided at some point on an all-Cessna fleet for safety
reasons.

My hope is that we'll grow the club enough to add aircraft in a diverse
way (ie. perhaps a 152 and a 206) w/o violating that "all Cessna" rule.

- Andrew