Fuel prices-BTU's per Gal.

GeorgeB wrote:
On Wed, 30 May 2007 15:10:29 GMT, Jerry Wass
wrote:

Don't like to beat a dead horse, but--

As C.S. Nixon said--"let me make myself perfectly clear"

I agree that a gallon of Mogas has more btu's than a gallon of Avgas


The main reason being--1 gal mogas= 7.422 lbs.
1 gal avgas= 6.978 lbs.

Q.E.D.

Per Wikipedia, and my friends who do weight/balance calcs, the avgasd
number above is alittle, like 18%, off ...

Avgas has a density of 6.02 lb/US gallon at 15 °C, or 0.72 kg/l, and
this density is commonly used for weight and balance computation.
Density increases to 6.40 lb/US gallon at -40 °C, and decreases by
about 0.5% per 5 °C increase in temperature.[3]

[3] is # ^ MacDonald, Sandy A. F.; Isabel L. Peppler [1941] (2004).
"Chapter 10. Airmanship", From The Ground Up, Millennium Edition,
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada: Aviation Publishers Co. Limited, pp. 265,
261. ISBN 0-9680390-5-7.

AirBP says "AVGAS 100LL: Aviation Gasoline for Reciprocating Engines
with lower maximum lead content. Color: Blue. Flash point: Below 0
degrees F. API gravity: 64-7. Relative density: .6582-.7238".

Water is likely the density of 1.000, and is about 8.34 lb/gal
suggesting the 6 lb/gal is a pretty good number.

I'd like to know the source for your 6.978 ...

My Sources a a 5 gal can of Avgas bought for break-in purposes on my
rebuilt engine--about two weeks ago, and kept in a S.Steel can of the
variety used for holding Coke/Pepsi syrup at vending booths.--air tight.
good for 125 psi(has to hold the CO2 pressure)

a 5 gal jug of Mogas bought a week ago for my lawnmower.

a 250 CC graduated Lab-type beaker, & a metric balance type scale
accurate to 0.1 gm.

The Avgas weighed 168.3 gms/250cc---The Mogas weighed 179.0gm/250cc----

Please let me know If I made any mistakes in the conversion----If not,
I'll re-weigh two more samples tomorrow..

On Thu, 31 May 2007 00:25:09 GMT, Jerry Wass
wrote:

GeorgeB wrote:
On Wed, 30 May 2007 15:10:29 GMT, Jerry Wass
wrote:

Don't like to beat a dead horse, but--

As C.S. Nixon said--"let me make myself perfectly clear"

I agree that a gallon of Mogas has more btu's than a gallon of Avgas


The main reason being--1 gal mogas= 7.422 lbs.
1 gal avgas= 6.978 lbs.

Q.E.D.

Per Wikipedia, and my friends who do weight/balance calcs, the avgasd
number above is alittle, like 18%, off ...

Avgas has a density of 6.02 lb/US gallon at 15 °C, or 0.72 kg/l, and
this density is commonly used for weight and balance computation.
Density increases to 6.40 lb/US gallon at -40 °C, and decreases by
about 0.5% per 5 °C increase in temperature.[3]

[3] is # ^ MacDonald, Sandy A. F.; Isabel L. Peppler [1941] (2004).
"Chapter 10. Airmanship", From The Ground Up, Millennium Edition,
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada: Aviation Publishers Co. Limited, pp. 265,
261. ISBN 0-9680390-5-7.

AirBP says "AVGAS 100LL: Aviation Gasoline for Reciprocating Engines
with lower maximum lead content. Color: Blue. Flash point: Below 0
degrees F. API gravity: 64-7. Relative density: .6582-.7238".

Water is likely the density of 1.000, and is about 8.34 lb/gal
suggesting the 6 lb/gal is a pretty good number.

I'd like to know the source for your 6.978 ...

My Sources a a 5 gal can of Avgas bought for break-in purposes on my
rebuilt engine--about two weeks ago, and kept in a S.Steel can of the
variety used for holding Coke/Pepsi syrup at vending booths.--air tight.
good for 125 psi(has to hold the CO2 pressure)

a 5 gal jug of Mogas bought a week ago for my lawnmower.

a 250 CC graduated Lab-type beaker, & a metric balance type scale
accurate to 0.1 gm.

The Avgas weighed 168.3 gms/250cc---The Mogas weighed 179.0gm/250cc----

Please let me know If I made any mistakes in the conversion----If not,
I'll re-weigh two more samples tomorrow..

Sounds right to me. SG has an effect on the energy content, but it is
NOT an indicator of octane. MoGas has a higher energy density than
AvGas (generally).

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Thu, 31 May 2007 00:25:09 GMT, Jerry Wass
wrote:

The main reason being--1 gal mogas= 7.422 lbs.
1 gal avgas= 6.978 lbs.

Avgas has a density of 6.02 lb/US gallon at 15 °C, or 0.72 kg/l, and

The Avgas weighed 168.3 gms/250cc---The Mogas weighed 179.0gm/250cc----

Please let me know If I made any mistakes in the conversion----If not,
I'll re-weigh two more samples tomorrow..

Plugging your avgas numbers into my conversion software, I get 0.371
lb / 0.066 gal for your measurements ... which my calculator gives as
5.62 lb.gal. I didn't run the mogas.

One of us has bad conversion data, maybe both of us.

George

GeorgeB wrote:
On Thu, 31 May 2007 00:25:09 GMT, Jerry Wass
wrote:

The main reason being--1 gal mogas= 7.422 lbs.
1 gal avgas= 6.978 lbs.

Avgas has a density of 6.02 lb/US gallon at 15 °C, or 0.72 kg/l, and

The Avgas weighed 168.3 gms/250cc---The Mogas weighed 179.0gm/250cc----

Please let me know If I made any mistakes in the conversion----If not,
I'll re-weigh two more samples tomorrow..

Plugging your avgas numbers into my conversion software, I get 0.371
lb / 0.066 gal for your measurements ... which my calculator gives as
5.62 lb.gal. I didn't run the mogas.

One of us has bad conversion data, maybe both of us.

George

Doing the simplest conversion---168.3/250.0--= sp.gr.of 0.6732..

0.6732X 8.34(#/gal for h2o)= 5.614 #/gal for Avgas--agreeing with
you--but isn't right---I'm gonna weigh things again--might have been off
on my tare weight. Jerry

Jerry Wass wrote:


Doing the simplest conversion---168.3/250.0--= sp.gr.of 0.6732..

0.6732X 8.34(#/gal for h2o)= 5.614 #/gal for Avgas--agreeing with
you--but isn't right---I'm gonna weigh things again--might have been off
on my tare weight. Jerry
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

I don't keep avgas at my house. However....

Weighing 250 cc of 60 degree F. mogas = 190 grams

Specific gravity = 190/250cc = 0.76

0.76 x 8.34 = 6.3384....

MOGAS = 6.3384 lb/gal @ 60 degrees F.

More than close enough for GW Bush gov't work!



Barnyard BOb - definitely beating YOUR dead horse 8-)

On Thu, 31 May 2007 10:56:21 -0500, Barnyard BOb
wrote:


Jerry Wass wrote:


Doing the simplest conversion---168.3/250.0--= sp.gr.of 0.6732..

0.6732X 8.34(#/gal for h2o)= 5.614 #/gal for Avgas--agreeing with
you--but isn't right---I'm gonna weigh things again--might have been off
on my tare weight. Jerry
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

I don't keep avgas at my house. However....

Weighing 250 cc of 60 degree F. mogas = 190 grams

Specific gravity = 190/250cc = 0.76

0.76 x 8.34 = 6.3384....

MOGAS = 6.3384 lb/gal @ 60 degrees F.

More than close enough for GW Bush gov't work!

A more relevant number is the BTUs per gallon which translaes into MPG
for a given engine.

Automotive gas in California is about 111,500 BTU while E85 is about
81,000, or 72% Straight Ethenol is roughtly 60% or 66,600 BTU.
Alcohol costs more while giving much less energy and MPG. IOW just
going from straight gas to E85 a trip that takes 50 gallons of gas
will take at least 69.5 gallons of E85.
Given todays car gas prices of basically $3.20 per gallon (it's near
$3.50 in michigan) if we take that 50 gallons of gas for a trip at
$3.50 it's 175 USD. Given the same price for E85 (which is actually
more expensive) we come up with $243.25, or an extra $68.25 for the
same trip using E85.

Alternative fuels are in general more expensive to use or implement
than gas. For those fuels to become viable alternatives the cost of
gas is going ot need to go to at least $3.50 a gallon and stay there.

Except for small scale implementation, Hydrogen is much more
expensive.

I spent some time with a consulatant a couple weeks back. His
conclusion for me to go a combination of active and passive solar
power would easily run bet ween $30,000 and $50,000 for this small
home. Yes, I could sell power back to the power company, BUT our rates
are about 8 cents per KWH whichmakes for a very long pay back if I
don't have to purchase any power. Add to that, maintenance on the
syatem and it really starts to get expensive.

"Roger (K8RI)" wrote:


MOGAS = 6.3384 lb/gal @ 60 degrees F.

More than close enough for GW Bush gov't work!

A more relevant number is the BTUs per gallon which translaes into MPG
for a given engine.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Roger,
You are very, very late to this party.

Btu/gal is not only old news, if you follow this thread back....
but of no interest to the 'victims' beating this horse dead!

Sorry. 8-)



- Barnyard Bob - lord luva duck

On Sat, 02 Jun 2007 01:00:31 -0500, Barnyard BOb
wrote:


"Roger (K8RI)" wrote:


MOGAS = 6.3384 lb/gal @ 60 degrees F.

More than close enough for GW Bush gov't work!

A more relevant number is the BTUs per gallon which translaes into MPG
for a given engine.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Roger,
You are very, very late to this party.

Btu/gal is not only old news, if you follow this thread back....
but of no interest to the 'victims' beating this horse dead!

I've been following the thread Bob, but the only thing I could find
relevant is energy per unit. The only time I care about weight or spg
is when figuring out how much I can carry. :-0)


Sorry. 8-)



- Barnyard Bob - lord luva duck