Gasohol

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Peter Dohm" wrote

Really, the only way that I know to correctly "do the science" is to
purchase a small amount (perhaps a liter) of anhydrous ethanol from a
medical supply and perform a series of tests on a variety of
samples--including samples of known pure and dry avgas and mogas. For
the
moment, I am unwilling to undertake the project, and also I believe that
Clare and Bob are correct.

How sure are we that the gasohol in service station tanks contain no
water?

Is it possible that all tanks containing gasohol contain at least some
water
dissolved?

Is it a certainty that the alcohol added to gasoline contains no dissolved
water?

I don't know the answer to any of these questions. Does anyone know, for
CERTAIN, any of these questions?

My guess is that all service station tanks, (unless they have never had
straight gas, and that they are BRAND NEW) have had an opportunity to get
some water in their tanks. If that is the case, and you put gasohol in
them, the gasohol samples will contain some dissolved water, and the
seltzer
test will work.

If that is the case, doing a scientific test with clean gas and adding
water
free alcohol will prove nothing.
--
Jim in NC


According to annecdotes that I heard many years ago, service station gas
tanks have always contained some water--but since the gasolene is lighter,
the water settled to the bottom, so they were able to draw straight gasolene
from a floating pickup. According to those annecdotes, there could have
been as much as a couple of feet on water below the gasolene before it was
drawn of as part of periodic maintenance, with the result that the apparatus
were designed to shut off with a considerable level of liquid remaining in
the tanks--in order to avoid pumping water.

At this time, I have no reliable means to verify the the original story, nor
whether service stations now have sealed tanks with evaporative controls and
driers similar to the vehicles they service--which I doubt.

However, one obvious possibility is as droll as it is annoying.

Peter

"Peter Dohm" wrote in message .. .



According to annecdotes that I heard many years ago, service station gas
tanks have always contained some water--but since the gasolene is lighter,
the water settled to the bottom, so they were able to draw straight gasolene
from a floating pickup. According to those annecdotes, there could have
been as much as a couple of feet on water below the gasolene before it was
drawn of as part of periodic maintenance, with the result that the apparatus
were designed to shut off with a considerable level of liquid remaining in
the tanks--in order to avoid pumping water.

At this time, I have no reliable means to verify the the original story, nor
whether service stations now have sealed tanks with evaporative controls and
driers similar to the vehicles they service--which I doubt.

However, one obvious possibility is as droll as it is annoying.

Peter


It seems to me that if there were a considerable amount of water in the gasoline tanks, and those tanks were filled with
alcohol laced gasoline, then the effect would be the same as the 'water to the line test'; in other words the alcohol
would be drawn from the gasohol mix and the user would have fuel that does not satisfy the octane ratings as posted on
the pump. The bonus would maybe result in gasoline being pumped that contained less alcohol than the supplier
intended...

Peter Dohm wrote:

According to annecdotes that I heard many years ago, service station gas
tanks have always contained some water--but since the gasolene is lighter,
the water settled to the bottom, so they were able to draw straight gasolene
from a floating pickup. According to those annecdotes, there could have
been as much as a couple of feet on water below the gasolene before it was
drawn of as part of periodic maintenance, with the result that the apparatus
were designed to shut off with a considerable level of liquid remaining in
the tanks--in order to avoid pumping water.

Speaking as someone who pumped gas to earn tuition money back in the
early 60s before there was gasahol, we'd 'stick' the tanks daily at
closing time to verify the amount in the tanks. There was always some
water that was evident at the bottom of the stick, but it was never more
than an inch or so.

Dave Butler wrote:

Speaking as someone who pumped gas to earn tuition money back in the
early 60s before there was gasahol, we'd 'stick' the tanks daily at
closing time to verify the amount in the tanks. There was always some
water that was evident at the bottom of the stick, but it was never
more than an inch or so.

The only way we knew it to be "evident" was to put the paste on the stick
and note a color change...

I used to pump gas in the 70's, later I serviced the pumps and fuel systems
themselves (80's)...

Sportys used to sell a test kit that contained a chemical that would turn
purple if added to a fuel sample that was gasahol.

I have no idea of what the chemical was. It was a very easy to test the
fuel. They claim that their supplier no longer exists. I bought a bunch of
the kits and have about 1/2 a vial of the chemical left.

I sure would like to know what the reagent is that was used.

Cheers:

Paul
N1431A

What is the color of the unreacted reagent? Water clear? I'll as the chair
of the chem department what it is and maybe buy a gallon or two and sell it
by the vial for only a thousand percent markup {;-)

I'm in training to run a pharmaceutical company

Jim

--
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world.
Those who count in binary and those who don't
"Tri-Pacer" wrote in message
. ..
Sportys used to sell a test kit that contained a chemical that would turn
purple if added to a fuel sample that was gasahol.

I have no idea of what the chemical was. It was a very easy to test the
fuel. They claim that their supplier no longer exists. I bought a bunch of
the kits and have about 1/2 a vial of the chemical left.

I sure would like to know what the reagent is that was used.

Cheers:

Paul
N1431A

On Mon, 4 Jun 2007 16:48:32 -0700, "RST Engineering"
wrote:

What is the color of the unreacted reagent? Water clear? I'll as the chair
of the chem department what it is and maybe buy a gallon or two and sell it
by the vial for only a thousand percent markup {;-)

I'm in training to run a pharmaceutical company

Google "Aquatec test strips"

Don

Aqua (as in "water") Aquatec test strips check for WATER, not alcohol.
Google Alcohol Test Strip and you get a million hits on how to test for
booze on the breath, but not a word about gasahol. Google Gasahol Test
Strip and you come up with nothing usable.

Jim--
There are only 10 kinds of people in the world.
Those who count in binary and those who don't



"Don Tuite" wrote in message
...



Google "Aquatec test strips"

Don

The reagent is a light purple color and when it is introduced into a sample
of fuel with alcohol it turns the sample purple. A chart is included to
determine the percentage of alcohol. The kits were put together by a "B.B.
Travis Co." PO Box 287 Lodi CA 95241 and are supposedly Patent Pending.

I haven't found any sign of a BB Travis Company but my searching skills
aren't the best.

I have a small amount of the reagent left and would provide it as a sample
to someone who could analyze it.

Paul Anton
N1431A
KPLU


" What is the color of the unreacted reagent? Water clear? I'll as the
chair
of the chem department what it is and maybe buy a gallon or two and sell
it by the vial for only a thousand percent markup {;-)

I'm in training to run a pharmaceutical company

Jim

"Tri-Pacer" wrote:

The reagent is a light purple color and when it is introduced into a
sample of fuel with alcohol it turns the sample purple. A chart is
included to determine the percentage of alcohol. The kits were put
together by a "B.B. Travis Co." PO Box 287 Lodi CA 95241 and are
supposedly Patent Pending.

I haven't found any sign of a BB Travis Company but my searching
skills aren't the best.

I called the Lodi Post Office, they handle that zip as well, but can't
give any alternate contact info over the phone...

Post Office - Lodi
(209) 369-2351
120 S School ST
Lodi, CA 95240

Looking through the people and not businesses, I find:

B Travis
(209) 366-1559
Lodi, CA 95240

I left a message on the machine...