State of the Art, 1963

"Mike Marron" wrote in message news
Basically, how does the combat go?

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Likely no
different than how the Japanese Zero's did against F-14's
in the 1980 movie, "The Final Countdown," starring Kirk Douglas,
Martin Sheen, Katharine Ross, and the nuclear aircraft carrier
USS Nimitz.

The F-4 never even sees the enemy? It should see the enemy from
30 miles away unless someone jams them, and most F-18s don't
have jamming ability (I think).

In message , Charles Talleyrand
writes
"Mike Marron" wrote in
message news
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Likely no
different than how the Japanese Zero's did against F-14's
in the 1980 movie, "The Final Countdown," starring Kirk Douglas,
Martin Sheen, Katharine Ross, and the nuclear aircraft carrier
USS Nimitz.

The F-4 never even sees the enemy? It should see the enemy from
30 miles away unless someone jams them, and most F-18s don't
have jamming ability (I think).

What pods are the F/A-18s carrying, and/or who's escorting it?

30 miles head-on is well inside the published AMRAAM envelope: by the
time the F-4s see the enemy, they've already got missiles inbound (but
are still well outside published Sparrow range, even head-on).

Would _you_ assume that the difficult blips on your radar were some sort
of time-travelling superfighter? Even if you did, what could you do?



--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message ...
The F-4 never even sees the enemy? It should see the enemy from
30 miles away unless someone jams them, and most F-18s don't
have jamming ability (I think).

What pods are the F/A-18s carrying, and/or who's escorting it?

30 miles head-on is well inside the published AMRAAM envelope: by the
time the F-4s see the enemy, they've already got missiles inbound (but
are still well outside published Sparrow range, even head-on).

Would _you_ assume that the difficult blips on your radar were some sort
of time-travelling superfighter? Even if you did, what could you do?

I would likely die. I would rather eject. Maybe utrning tail and running
would work????? But it's bad all the way.

My question is .. do the F-4s see the F-18s or the incoming missiles at all?
Sure, they lose the battle but do they even see (on radar) the enemy at all.
I'm pretty sure the answer is "no" if the F-18s come in low, so what
if the F-18s come in high?

In message , Charles Talleyrand
writes
"Paul J. Adam" wrote in message
...
What pods are the F/A-18s carrying, and/or who's escorting it?

30 miles head-on is well inside the published AMRAAM envelope: by the
time the F-4s see the enemy, they've already got missiles inbound (but
are still well outside published Sparrow range, even head-on).

Would _you_ assume that the difficult blips on your radar were some sort
of time-travelling superfighter? Even if you did, what could you do?

I would likely die. I would rather eject. Maybe utrning tail and running
would work????? But it's bad all the way.

My question is .. do the F-4s see the F-18s or the incoming missiles at all?

Not the missiles. The aircraft... don't know. Depends on lots of issues
(which model of Hornet? The -E is sneakier, especially head-on). Are the
Phantoms looking up or down? Do they have any idea at all there's a
threat?

Early Phantoms, I'll say they won't see the missiles, might maybe see
the Hornets, but wouldn't want to bet on it.


Reaching here (not used early Phantom radar) I'd guess the F-4s might
pick up fast small inbounds, which then turn away outside Sparrow range:
first guess is enemy threat avoiding the Sparrow shot rather than
closing to fight. No launch indications they'd recognise and the threats
are evading; and if the AMRAAMs even set off the F-4's RWRs when they go
active the Phantoms are looking for a pop-up fighter threat, not
starting missile evasion.

It's bad news for the F-4s, AFAIK.


--
When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
W S Churchill

Paul J. Adam MainBoxatjrwlynch[dot]demon{dot}co(.)uk

"Charles Talleyrand" wrote in message
...

"Mike Marron" wrote in message
news
Basically, how does the combat go?

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Likely no
different than how the Japanese Zero's did against F-14's
in the 1980 movie, "The Final Countdown," starring Kirk Douglas,
Martin Sheen, Katharine Ross, and the nuclear aircraft carrier
USS Nimitz.

The F-4 never even sees the enemy? It should see the enemy from
30 miles away unless someone jams them, and most F-18s don't
have jamming ability (I think).


Are we talking E-model -18s when you mention "modern?" If so, the reduced
RCS alone may preclude the early F-4 and its rudimentary radar from even
seeing the -18s, let alone locking them...

JMHO,
Cory
"Happy to be here, proud to serve!"