Great aviation museum

"Viperdoc" wrote

Just spent the day at the Evergreen Aviation Museum in McMinnville, OR.
(around an hour SW of Portland)

Highly recommended for an excellent experience.

Too bad that it is such a long hall from NC, but I hope to get there some
day.

The Spruce Goose is totally interesting to me, for the massive scale, and
for the groundbreaking use of new technology. Add to that that I am a
woodworker, and that fills out the trifecta.

Anyone got a link that has a bunch of good articles (or whatever you want to
call the reporting) on the Spruce Goose, and good pictures to go with it? I
goggled for a long while, and never came up with a good web site. I am
primarily interested on how it was made, and how it works.

I still am of the opinion that it did not have enough power to fly out of
ground effect, and Hughes knew it, once he did his test hop. I sure would
like to see it fly one day, if it could. Doubtful (understatement) that it
will ever happen, (due to the enormous cost) sadly.

Thanks for the report.
--
Jim in NC

They had lots of books and models of the Spruce Goose, including some of the
models used in the Aviator movie.

It's amazing to see such a huge wing and fuselage without any rivets! Also,
those 28 cylinder engines were unbelievable (they have a larger engine
collection and display than the NASM), all up close and easy to inspect.


"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Viperdoc" wrote

Just spent the day at the Evergreen Aviation Museum in McMinnville, OR.
(around an hour SW of Portland)

Highly recommended for an excellent experience.

Too bad that it is such a long hall from NC, but I hope to get there some
day.

The Spruce Goose is totally interesting to me, for the massive scale, and
for the groundbreaking use of new technology. Add to that that I am a
woodworker, and that fills out the trifecta.

Anyone got a link that has a bunch of good articles (or whatever you want
to call the reporting) on the Spruce Goose, and good pictures to go with
it? I goggled for a long while, and never came up with a good web site. I
am primarily interested on how it was made, and how it works.

I still am of the opinion that it did not have enough power to fly out of
ground effect, and Hughes knew it, once he did his test hop. I sure would
like to see it fly one day, if it could. Doubtful (understatement) that
it will ever happen, (due to the enormous cost) sadly.

Thanks for the report.
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

The Spruce Goose is totally interesting to me, for the massive scale, and
for the groundbreaking use of new technology. Add to that that I am a
woodworker, and that fills out the trifecta.

Trivia: I overheard an Evergreen volunteer say that the reason you can't
access the cockpit is because it's not handicap-accessible and they don't
want to either get sued or modify the airplane to put in an elevator. Got
to run around (you don't crawl in the Goose) inside before it was put back
together. They asked for volunteers to peel off the white fire-proof
coating since they couldn't pressure wash it or steam it off without
damaging the wood.

Seemed like a great idea. I peeled a little for a minute and only then did
I really start to understand how big the airplane is. It would have been
worth it, but if I'd have started in 1997 by myself in my spare time I'd
still be doing it.

Right now, it has an SR-71 sitting under the right wing. The blackbird
looks tiny.

-c

On 4 Jun 02 I visited the museum and was told I couldn't visit the flight
deck for the same reason. It had just recently been closed to the public.
They said they soon expected to make it accessible. Guess they changed their
minds.

"gatt" wrote in message
...

Trivia: I overheard an Evergreen volunteer say that the reason you can't
access the cockpit is because it's not handicap-accessible and they don't
want to either get sued or modify the airplane to put in an elevator. ...

Jon Woellhaf wrote:
On 4 Jun 02 I visited the museum and was told I couldn't visit the flight
deck for the same reason. It had just recently been closed to the public.
They said they soon expected to make it accessible. Guess they changed their
minds.

"gatt" wrote in message
...

Trivia: I overheard an Evergreen volunteer say that the reason you can't
access the cockpit is because it's not handicap-accessible and they don't
want to either get sued or modify the airplane to put in an elevator. ...



Putting in all the stuff to make it accessible is EXPENSIVE and most
museums don't have much $$ (if any).

Margy

Margy Natalie wrote:
Putting in all the stuff to make it accessible is EXPENSIVE and most
museums don't have much $$ (if any).

they could easily save the money by removing and stop maintaining all
these female bathrooms; do you actually imagine how EXPENSIVE it is
to accommodate women in public places like museums (with limited funds
and all)? I mean, I'd understand if it were a museum about cooking
or child rearing and the likes, it's not as if they'd be interested
in stuff like aviation or other technical stuff like that.

(do I actually need to specify that the above is sarcasm? do you
actually get the point?)

--Sylvain

Sylvain wrote:
Margy Natalie wrote:
Putting in all the stuff to make it accessible is EXPENSIVE and most
museums don't have much $$ (if any).

they could easily save the money by removing and stop maintaining all
these female bathrooms; do you actually imagine how EXPENSIVE it is
to accommodate women in public places like museums (with limited funds
and all)? I mean, I'd understand if it were a museum about cooking
or child rearing and the likes, it's not as if they'd be interested
in stuff like aviation or other technical stuff like that.

(do I actually need to specify that the above is sarcasm? do you
actually get the point?)

--Sylvain
And what exactly is your point? The OP was asking about access to the
cockpits of some of the A/C and Margie said there is no money to make
them accessible so they are closed to all.

"John Theune" wrote

And what exactly is your point? The OP was asking about access to the
cockpits of some of the A/C and Margie said there is no money to make them
accessible so they are closed to all.

Yet another example of the government's rules, with no flexibility allowed.
Instead of getting access for the handicapped, it has resulted in getting NO
access for anyone.

There should be a grant process (for all I know, there is one) so that
historic (and perhaps other uses) items like the Spruce Goose could get some
monetary help in installing the equipment needed, so that all could enjoy
and learn about our history.
--
Jim in NC

Sylvain wrote:
Margy Natalie wrote:

Putting in all the stuff to make it accessible is EXPENSIVE and most
museums don't have much $$ (if any).


they could easily save the money by removing and stop maintaining all
these female bathrooms; do you actually imagine how EXPENSIVE it is
to accommodate women in public places like museums (with limited funds
and all)? I mean, I'd understand if it were a museum about cooking
or child rearing and the likes, it's not as if they'd be interested
in stuff like aviation or other technical stuff like that.

(do I actually need to specify that the above is sarcasm? do you
actually get the point?)

--Sylvain
Yes, but you seem to be missing the point, it is perfectly legal to deny
access to all rather than to some. So when the dollars are slim, they
close up the planes. I've been to public parks where there are no
bathrooms and I'm sure it's for the same reason, cost. I've taken
handicapped kids to places that were not required to be accessible, but
I'll be damned we went everywhere and I didn't tip that wheelchair once
(came real close a few times).

At NASM downtown there is a plane downtown they put up on a platform and
built a lift to it, etc. When I got one to put in at Hazy we decided if
we kept it on the floor we would have to put pipe insulation on the
trailing edge. I think anyone in a chair could manage to get into it
with a bit of assistance.

I've always wondered if it would be acceptable to provide a stair-chair
rather than install a lift. Having a stair-chair available would make
access to multiple aircraft affordable.

Margy

Margy Natalie wrote:
I've always wondered if it would be acceptable to provide a stair-chair
rather than install a lift. Having a stair-chair available would make
access to multiple aircraft affordable.

at least you wondered about it.

Some prefer to make assumptions based on whatever preconceived ideas
they may have. Note that stair chairs and such can be another can
of worms: how does the person transfers to it? if helps is needed
who provides it (who is qualified to do so? who is liable in case
of a snag, etc.)

back to the museum thing:

from title 2:

"...II-3.6100 General. A public entity must reasonably modify its policies,
practices, or procedures to avoid discrimination. If the public entity can
demonstrate, however, that the modifications would fundamentally alter the
nature of its service, program, or activity, it is not required to make the
modification. ..."

it's all there is to it. That has been used over and over for historical
buildings and ships and such. No need to cut holes through Elona Gay or
the Spruce Goose (by the way, Hughes would be quite upset that we keep
referring to his aircraft as such -- probably just as upset as if holes
were cut into it :-) );

--Sylvain