Argument against high gas prices

On Jun 5, 2:31 pm, wrote:

I think the truth is that the gasoline futures market is being
manipulated to maximize profits. Why else would the prices of av-gas
rise so much when demand has dropped by nearly 50% since 2000? Why
would auto-gas prices rise rapidly, when demand is flat?


I agree with you that high gasoline price maximizes oil company
profit. However as a pilot you can easily hedge on that by buying oil
company stock, or invest in mutual funds that're specialized in the
oil sector. All major oil companies are public companies. I'm quite
certain that I made far more from the oil companies than what I paid
extra for the fuel, and I only have a small part of my 401k in the
energy sector.

In terms of 100LL avgas, there's something else in play here. Due to
the lead content requiring a separate infrastructure to transport and
distribute the fuel, a reduction of 100LL consumption will result in a
bigger price gap between 100LL and autogas, due to the largely fixed
cost of 100LL infrastructure needing to be spread among a smaller
overall sales. If the 100LL consumption dropped to 50% of today's
level (it probably won't be many years away), don't be surprised that
100LL costs more than $2/gallon over the autogas price.

On Jun 5, 10:34 pm, M wrote:
On Jun 5, 2:31 pm, wrote:



I think the truth is that the gasoline futures market is being
manipulated to maximize profits. Why else would the prices of av-gas
rise so much when demand has dropped by nearly 50% since 2000? Why
would auto-gas prices rise rapidly, when demand is flat?

I agree with you that high gasoline price maximizes oil company
profit. However as a pilot you can easily hedge on that by buying oil
company stock, or invest in mutual funds that're specialized in the
oil sector. All major oil companies are public companies. I'm quite
certain that I made far more from the oil companies than what I paid
extra for the fuel, and I only have a small part of my 401k in the
energy sector.

In terms of 100LL avgas, there's something else in play here. Due to
the lead content requiring a separate infrastructure to transport and
distribute the fuel, a reduction of 100LL consumption will result in a
bigger price gap between 100LL and autogas, due to the largely fixed
cost of 100LL infrastructure needing to be spread among a smaller
overall sales. If the 100LL consumption dropped to 50% of today's
level (it probably won't be many years away), don't be surprised that
100LL costs more than $2/gallon over the autogas price.

Really? Got a $100K I can have to invest in the oil companies? I
don't have it myself, so your suggestion does me no good.

wrote:



Really? Got a $100K I can have to invest in the oil companies? I
don't have it myself, so your suggestion does me no good.


You don't need $100k in order to be an investor you doofus. Sign up
for a Schwab/Etrade/Scottrade account for as littel as $500.

Sheesh... the education system is this country is as corrupt
as the government. Oh yeah... schools are run by the government.

On Jun 6, 4:07 am, kontiki wrote:
wrote:

Really? Got a $100K I can have to invest in the oil companies? I
don't have it myself, so your suggestion does me no good.

You don't need $100k in order to be an investor you doofus. Sign up
for a Schwab/Etrade/Scottrade account for as littel as $500.

Sheesh... the education system is this country is as corrupt
as the government. Oh yeah... schools are run by the government.

Oooh, so if I invest a whole $500 in oil, I might make what, $500 if I
am lucky? Wow, big deal...

It takes money to make money in the stock market. If you don't
already have it, you have nothing to leverage to make any real money.
Talk about needing an education! By the way, I have a B.S.E.E. and
have taken economics courses on the time value of money, so I
understand that anything less than $100K invested in oil isn't going
to make enough money to really be worth crowing about. With the cost
of living rising as fast as it is, you need to be making at least 10%
on your money, and $100K will only earn about $10K annually at that
rate of return. Housing, transportation and medical are the biggest
rising cost factors and they aren't included in the consumer price
index, specifically so that the government can claim low inflation!

Is $500 big money to you?

wrote:


Oooh, so if I invest a whole $500 in oil, I might make what, $500 if I
am lucky? Wow, big deal...


Exactly. Do you expect them to just start paying you money while until
you save enough beer money to buy some shares? Sheesh go collect a
welfare check.

It takes money to make money in the stock market.

That's the general idea.

If you don't
already have it, you have nothing to leverage to make any real money.

Really? Wow I didn't know that!

Talk about needing an education! By the way, I have a B.S.E.E. and
have taken economics courses on the time value of money, so I
understand that anything less than $100K invested in oil isn't going
to make enough money to really be worth crowing about. With the cost
of living rising as fast as it is, you need to be making at least 10%
on your money, and $100K will only earn about $10K annually at that
rate of return. Housing, transportation and medical are the biggest
rising cost factors and they aren't included in the consumer price
index, specifically so that the government can claim low inflation!

Is $500 big money to you?


You are full of crap dude. I started with about $7K that I rolled over
from a 401K account from a previous job. I eventually rolled it into
a Roth and made modest contributions and investments over a period of
the last 7 years. Now the balance is over $80K and I didn't have to
break a sweat. And yes, I've taken the time to learn about investing
and researched stocks on my own. I've bought and sold shares in oil
companies over that time and made money. Its not rocket science.

You have a loser attitude.

On Jun 6, 9:39 am, kontiki wrote:
wrote:

Oooh, so if I invest a whole $500 in oil, I might make what, $500 if I
am lucky? Wow, big deal...

Exactly. Do you expect them to just start paying you money while until
you save enough beer money to buy some shares? Sheesh go collect a
welfare check.

It takes money to make money in the stock market.

That's the general idea.

If you don't
already have it, you have nothing to leverage to make any real money.

Really? Wow I didn't know that!

Talk about needing an education! By the way, I have a B.S.E.E. and
have taken economics courses on the time value of money, so I
understand that anything less than $100K invested in oil isn't going
to make enough money to really be worth crowing about. With the cost
of living rising as fast as it is, you need to be making at least 10%
on your money, and $100K will only earn about $10K annually at that
rate of return. Housing, transportation and medical are the biggest
rising cost factors and they aren't included in the consumer price
index, specifically so that the government can claim low inflation!

Is $500 big money to you?

You are full of crap dude. I started with about $7K that I rolled over
from a 401K account from a previous job. I eventually rolled it into
a Roth and made modest contributions and investments over a period of
the last 7 years. Now the balance is over $80K and I didn't have to
break a sweat. And yes, I've taken the time to learn about investing
and researched stocks on my own. I've bought and sold shares in oil
companies over that time and made money. Its not rocket science.

You have a loser attitude.

You have an arrogant attitude. I have more in my 401K than you do,
but that's not the point. I have a legitimate right to gripe about
over-inflated gas prices which are clearly a result of poorly managed
supply (not increasing demand). Investing money in the industry which
I don't have at my disposal (and no, 401K funds typically don't allow
you to target one or two stocks) as a way of saying "if you can't beat
them, join them" is BS. Also, trying to insult my education is
juvenile. You are what, 25? 28? You act like 17.

Dean

wrote:


You have an arrogant attitude.

That's the way I get when I hear people like you bitch.

I have more in my 401K than you do,

I didn't say that amount was in my current 401K, if you had
actually comprehended what I wrote you would have known it is
a Roth IRA account which is contributory. Its available to
all working Americans.

but that's not the point. I have a legitimate right to gripe about
over-inflated gas prices which are clearly a result of poorly managed
supply (not increasing demand).

The poor management is a result of chicken little attitudes like
yours and the complete lack of leadership in this country with
respect to an responsible energy plan.

Investing money in the industry which
I don't have at my disposal (and no, 401K funds typically don't allow
you to target one or two stocks)

My 401K lets me choose among numerous types of investments, although
not indivudal stocks. Like I said... open up a Roth IRA if you want
more bang for your buck.

as a way of saying "if you can't beat
them, join them" is BS. Also, trying to insult my education is
juvenile. You are what, 25? 28? You act like 17.


I have a BSEE too but for me it was only the beginning of a lifelong
educational process.

wrote:

You have an arrogant attitude. I have more in my 401K than you do,
but that's not the point. I have a legitimate right to gripe about
over-inflated gas prices which are clearly a result of poorly managed
supply (not increasing demand). Investing money in the industry which
I don't have at my disposal (and no, 401K funds typically don't allow
you to target one or two stocks) as a way of saying "if you can't beat
them, join them" is BS. Also, trying to insult my education is
juvenile. You are what, 25? 28? You act like 17.

Dean

You seem to be under the misconception that it is the oil company's job to
keep prices as low as posible. This is not the case. It is their job to keep
profits as high as they can. Obviously the market is able to deal with
prices at thier current rate because according to all the reports I've seen
holiday driving didn't drop a bit this past memorial day weekend.

On Jun 6, 8:46 am, wrote:
On Jun 6, 9:39 am, kontiki wrote:



wrote:

Oooh, so if I invest a whole $500 in oil, I might make what, $500 if I
am lucky? Wow, big deal...

Exactly. Do you expect them to just start paying you money while until
you save enough beer money to buy some shares? Sheesh go collect a
welfare check.

It takes money to make money in the stock market.

That's the general idea.

If you don't
already have it, you have nothing to leverage to make any real money.

Really? Wow I didn't know that!

Talk about needing an education! By the way, I have a B.S.E.E. and
have taken economics courses on the time value of money, so I
understand that anything less than $100K invested in oil isn't going
to make enough money to really be worth crowing about. With the cost
of living rising as fast as it is, you need to be making at least 10%
on your money, and $100K will only earn about $10K annually at that
rate of return. Housing, transportation and medical are the biggest
rising cost factors and they aren't included in the consumer price
index, specifically so that the government can claim low inflation!

Is $500 big money to you?

You are full of crap dude. I started with about $7K that I rolled over
from a 401K account from a previous job. I eventually rolled it into
a Roth and made modest contributions and investments over a period of
the last 7 years. Now the balance is over $80K and I didn't have to
break a sweat. And yes, I've taken the time to learn about investing
and researched stocks on my own. I've bought and sold shares in oil
companies over that time and made money. Its not rocket science.

You have a loser attitude.

You have an arrogant attitude. I have more in my 401K than you do,
but that's not the point. I have a legitimate right to gripe about
over-inflated gas prices which are clearly a result of poorly managed
supply (not increasing demand). Investing money in the industry which
I don't have at my disposal (and no, 401K funds typically don't allow
you to target one or two stocks) as a way of saying "if you can't beat
them, join them" is BS. Also, trying to insult my education is
juvenile. You are what, 25? 28? You act like 17.

Dean

Gas prices are inflated to you. They are not inflated to the guy who
is working to sell TO you.
Buy a more fuel-efficient car, car-pool, whatever. Just quit griping.
The supply isn't poorly managed. The oil pool is finite. It used to
bubble out of the ground on its own; now they are drilling exploratory
wells as deep as 13,000 feet. It's running low and playing hard to
get. AND there are more people wanting it. I do SO wish I had
invested in oil stocks about 5 years ago...

We used to have more mass transit in this country. CAR companies
worked hard to get rid of it in the first half of the 1900s, and it
worked quite well. Bummer.
Today, people can stop buying the guzzlers, and that would go a long
way to end the carping about the price of gas.

As far as the 401, "takes money to make money", etc. Many of today's
rich are not Kennedys--by which I mean they didn't inherit money and
influence, but they somehow made it. And not likely by just working
60 hours per week. They invested what they could, early in their
careers. Making $500 on an investment isn't much, but keep rolling it
back in. Next time you have $1000, next time $2000, etc. After a
while, you have some real money. Most young people today could easily
retire rich if they stopped with the $5 bottled water, cut back a bit
on the Starbucks, and bought wine for a buck less per bottle. Put all
that away from the time you are 20, and in many cases it's a pretty
good starter nest egg.

"kontiki" wrote in message
...
wrote:


Oooh, so if I invest a whole $500 in oil, I might make what, $500 if I
am lucky? Wow, big deal...


Exactly. Do you expect them to just start paying you money while until
you save enough beer money to buy some shares? Sheesh go collect a
welfare check.

It takes money to make money in the stock market.

That's the general idea.

If you don't
already have it, you have nothing to leverage to make any real money.

Really? Wow I didn't know that!

The best leverage is SMART'S.

Lynn Tilton, whose company, Patriarch Partners, just bought MD Helicopters a
couple years ago, was a single Mom ten years ago, and is now worth over $1
BILLION from stock investments.

There's a number of people doing stock analysis who made their fortunes
starting with just a few hundreds. Before my wife "retired" from the stock
brokerage business to run OUR business, she knew, personally, dozens of
self-made millionaires.

What do they have that Dean hasn't got?

Lemme guess...