Gliders in the Grand Canyon

Mxsmanic wrote:
How is it that I flew into Marble Canyon last year and did not enter the
SFRA?

I suppose it depends on how you define the limits of Marble Canyon. The gorge
is completely contained within the SFRA, but parts of the Grand Canyon as a
whole in the area fall outside of the SFRA (the rim areas, for example).

I flew into the airport at Marble Canyon. At no time did I enter the SFRA.
Actual pilots who fly actual airplanes into this actual airport would know
how this is done.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

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Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

JGalban via AviationKB.com writes:

I flew into the airport at Marble Canyon. At no time did I enter the SFRA.

Yes, you did. The SFRA starts at the surface.

Mxsmanic wrote:
I flew into the airport at Marble Canyon. At no time did I enter the SFRA.

Yes, you did. The SFRA starts at the surface.

Oh really? That would be news to the folks that make the charts. You'd
better inform them of this important discovery right away!

You really are clueless.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

flynrider via AviationKB.com writes:

Oh really? That would be news to the folks that make the charts.

I think not. The charts are marked in the standard way to indicate the
vertical boundaries of the SFRA. All sectors start at the surface, although
the ceilings vary.

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Mxsmanic wrote:
flynrider via AviationKB.com writes:

Oh really? That would be news to the folks that make the charts.

I think not. The charts are marked in the standard way to indicate the
vertical boundaries of the SFRA. All sectors start at the surface, although
the ceilings vary.

Apparently you have never heard of shelving or floors. Take
example, Las Vegas Departure or Las Vegas Approach. Technically
Departure's floor there is 3500ft; at the ceiling of the pattern
altitude around Tower's airspace. Departure is split, to where a
sector's ceiling is 13000, while the rest of the next departure sector
has a ceiling of FL190[1].

Approach is the same. Their the first approach sector will have
their ceiling be at either 16000 or 12000[2], while their floor be at
8000. Next sector (final) has from 8000 until handoff to tower.

All of that information is available on the Las Vegas
Sectional, which you would have realized if you looked at it, since
it's publically available.

And to top that off, you can hear it in use on the KLAS
LiveATC.net feed.

BL.

[1] altimeter won't matter, as pilots will know that below
29.92, FL190 won't be used for a cruise altitude.

[2] Coming from the northwest, the crossing restrictions coming
into the Vegas Valley on a published STAR is 16000; MVAs in
area vary from 10500ft MSL to 14000ft MSL.

- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto
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A Guy Called Tyketto writes:

Apparently you have never heard of shelving or floors.

I have, but that's irrelevant here. The chart is clearly marked, e.g.,

9999' MSL
=========
SURFACE

Surface means the ground. You can't go below an airspace that starts on the
ground.

All of that information is available on the Las Vegas
Sectional, which you would have realized if you looked at it, since
it's publically available.

I'm looking at the Grand Canyon chart, which is also publically available, and
is much more relevant to the Grand Canyon SFRA than any other chart.

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Mxsmanic wrote:
A Guy Called Tyketto writes:

Apparently you have never heard of shelving or floors.

I have, but that's irrelevant here. The chart is clearly marked, e.g.,

9999' MSL
=========
SURFACE

Surface means the ground. You can't go below an airspace that starts on the
ground.

All of that information is available on the Las Vegas
Sectional, which you would have realized if you looked at it, since
it's publically available.

I'm looking at the Grand Canyon chart, which is also publically available, and
is much more relevant to the Grand Canyon SFRA than any other chart.

True; while this may be irrelevant to the Grand Canyon chart,
it goes back to the previous statement; the Grand Canyon Chart is 6
years out of date, according to the FAA; last update for that was April
19th, 2001. I understand that 'because a new chart hasn't been issued
still makes the old one current'; but it also does mean that any
changes to airports in the A/FD (closure, changes to the diagram,
layout of the airport, etc.) would supercede the chart you have, making
it old and out of date.

BL.
- --
Brad Littlejohn | Email:
Unix Systems Administrator, |
Web + NewsMaster, BOFH.. Smeghead! | http://www.wizard.com/~tyketto
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Mxsmanic wrote in
:

A Guy Called Tyketto writes:

Apparently you have never heard of shelving or floors.

I have, but that's irrelevant here. The chart is clearly marked,
e.g.,

9999' MSL
=========
SURFACE

Surface means the ground. You can't go below an airspace that starts
on the ground.

All of that information is available on the Las Vegas
Sectional, which you would have realized if you looked at it, since
it's publically available.

I'm looking at the Grand Canyon chart, which is also publically
available, and is much more relevant to the Grand Canyon SFRA than any
other chart.


Matters nada. You don't fly and never will fjukkkktard


Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

flynrider via AviationKB.com writes:

Oh really? That would be news to the folks that make the charts.

I think not. The charts are marked in the standard way to indicate
the vertical boundaries of the SFRA. All sectors start at the
surface, although the ceilings vary.

no they don;t fjukkwit

Bertie

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

JGalban via AviationKB.com writes:

I flew into the airport at Marble Canyon. At no time did I enter
the SFRA.

Yes, you did. The SFRA starts at the surface.


Not in your world, k00kee boi:

Bertei