New trainer from SZD Bielsko

On Jun 25, 7:21 pm, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:

How about watching the airspeed? If you maintain a margin over the loaded
stall speed, there no chance of stalling.

As for the ASK-21, you don't gain anything from pulling back anyway. The
highest winch launches are when the glider is flown at the best L/D angle of
attack - that's about neutral elevator..

Bill - Ian was being sarcastic...


Dan

"Dan G" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Jun 25, 7:21 pm, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:

How about watching the airspeed? If you maintain a margin over the
loaded
stall speed, there no chance of stalling.

As for the ASK-21, you don't gain anything from pulling back anyway. The
highest winch launches are when the glider is flown at the best L/D angle
of
attack - that's about neutral elevator..

Bill - Ian was being sarcastic...


Dan


OK, I accept the sarcasm and appologise for being sharp.

However, in the US there are many glider pilots who have never flown a winch
launch and instinctively fear nose high attitudes. Even joking about full
up elevator and stalls on the wire is terrifying to them. I felt I had to
make it clear that you should not be anywhere near the stalling AOA.

Adding to my concern is that the ubiquitous US Schweizer 2-33 does use full
up elevator on a winch launch due to the unfortunate position of the release
hook. A pilot transitioning to even a docile a trainer like a ASK-21 could
be in trouble if he misunderstands the difference.

It also concerns me that pilots with much experience on aero tow
transitioning to winch launch may have never considered the need to monitor
airspeed on a launch since the tug pilot has always done that for them.

Bill Daniels

Bill Daniels wrote:
Adding to my concern is that the ubiquitous US Schweizer 2-33 does use full
up elevator on a winch launch due to the unfortunate position of the release
hook. A pilot transitioning to even a docile a trainer like a ASK-21 could
be in trouble if he misunderstands the difference.

True CG hooks were an option for 2-33s, and could probably still be
retrofitted if desired. A second Schweizer hook is mounted ahead of the
main wheel, to the left of the skid. From recent experience, the
handling during launch is similar to a K-13...

Marc

Bill Daniels schrieb:

Adding to my concern is that the ubiquitous US Schweizer 2-33 does use full

Ubiquitous? I've never seen one in my life. Ok, I'm living in Europe.

up elevator on a winch launch due to the unfortunate position of the release
hook. A pilot transitioning to even a docile a trainer like a ASK-21 could
be in trouble if he misunderstands the difference.

That's what instructors are for.

It also concerns me that pilots with much experience on aero tow
transitioning to winch launch may have never considered the need to monitor
airspeed on a launch since the tug pilot has always done that for them.

That's what instructors are for.

"Sandro Rodriguez" wrote in message
...
Bill Daniels schrieb:

Adding to my concern is that the ubiquitous US Schweizer 2-33 does use
full

Ubiquitous? I've never seen one in my life. Ok, I'm living in Europe.

up elevator on a winch launch due to the unfortunate position of the
release hook. A pilot transitioning to even a docile a trainer like a
ASK-21 could be in trouble if he misunderstands the difference.

That's what instructors are for.

It also concerns me that pilots with much experience on aero tow
transitioning to winch launch may have never considered the need to
monitor airspeed on a launch since the tug pilot has always done that for
them.

That's what instructors are for.

Sandro, you are assuming US instructors have winch experience. Some do,
many don't.

Bill Daniels

Bill Daniels schrieb:

Sandro, you are assuming US instructors have winch experience. Some do,
many don't.

So you're saying that instructors with no winch launch experience teach
winch launches? Apalling. Or are you just saying that pilots with no
winch launch experience learn to winch launch on a try and error basis?
Apalling, too. (Besides my surprize that this should be legal.)

"Stefan" wrote in message
.. .
Bill Daniels schrieb:

Sandro, you are assuming US instructors have winch experience. Some do,
many don't.

So you're saying that instructors with no winch launch experience teach
winch launches? Apalling. Or are you just saying that pilots with no winch
launch experience learn to winch launch on a try and error basis?
Apalling, too. (Besides my surprize that this should be legal.)

Neither.

At a minimum, US pilots and instructors need a logbook entry showing they
have had instruction in ground launch techniques. In fact, most are
responsible enough to go much further in learning what they need to know.
Nonetheless, there seems to be a lot of misunderstandings about basic winch
technique.

I spend a lot of time doing winch training. One of the big
misunderstandings I encounter is the assumption that all winch launches are
made with full-up elevator. That's why I reacted to the earlier post.

Bill Daniels

On 26 Jun, 17:29, "Bill Daniels" bildan@comcast-dot-net wrote:

I spend a lot of time doing winch training. One of the big
misunderstandings I encounter is the assumption that all winch launches are
made with full-up elevator. That's why I reacted to the earlier post.

There is at least one large club in England which teaches this as the
right way to winch launch. They aren't worried about spins, because
their gliders are unspinnable and they aren't worried about cable
breaks because they chaneg the cables regularly. So that's all right
then.

Ian