Helicopters for glider pilots

Yes, the R-22 is certainly "twitchy." But I've been told that if one
can fly that, there's no helicopter that they won't be able to
handle. Or maybe one should learn on something "easier" and then be
basically barred from flying the most common helo in the world. Maybe
it's like taildraggers. If you learn from scratch in one, it's no big
deal. By the time you can fly the airplane and land it, you can
handle that or probably most any taildragger. But if you learn in a
tri-gear airplane, you're basically barred from more than half of the
Sport Pilot capable airplanes.

My first flight with Chris Townsend was an introductory flight
lesson. It had flight instruction in it, but there was also a lot of
demonstration aspects to it, like confined area landing and takeoff,
and one-skid landings to drop off a passenger. When it came time to
demonstrate an autorotation, and he had me close the throttle at about
800 feet, I was nervous, as I've watched many of those from the ground
in everything from R-22s to UH-1s. He brought that little helo to a
full stop on the ground without ever touching the throttle, and made
it seem easy. I asked him, "If I were to learn to fly this helo from
you all the way to my license, would I be allowed to do autos to
touchdown?" He replied: "I'm sure not going to even solo you in this
until you can do autos to touchdown time after time." I have no doubt
he would have been able to teach that, even though I don't think
there's a single operator in the US which does touchdown autos in
R-22s.

Ed

On 6/25/07 7:01 PM, in article
, "flying_monkey"
wrote:

Yes, the R-22 is certainly "twitchy." But I've been told that if one
can fly that, there's no helicopter that they won't be able to
handle. Or maybe one should learn on something "easier" and then be
basically barred from flying the most common helo in the world. Maybe
it's like taildraggers. If you learn from scratch in one, it's no big
deal. By the time you can fly the airplane and land it, you can
handle that or probably most any taildragger. But if you learn in a
tri-gear airplane, you're basically barred from more than half of the
Sport Pilot capable airplanes.

My first flight with Chris Townsend was an introductory flight
lesson. It had flight instruction in it, but there was also a lot of
demonstration aspects to it, like confined area landing and takeoff,
and one-skid landings to drop off a passenger. When it came time to
demonstrate an autorotation, and he had me close the throttle at about
800 feet, I was nervous, as I've watched many of those from the ground
in everything from R-22s to UH-1s. He brought that little helo to a
full stop on the ground without ever touching the throttle, and made
it seem easy. I asked him, "If I were to learn to fly this helo from
you all the way to my license, would I be allowed to do autos to
touchdown?" He replied: "I'm sure not going to even solo you in this
until you can do autos to touchdown time after time." I have no doubt
he would have been able to teach that, even though I don't think
there's a single operator in the US which does touchdown autos in
R-22s.

Ed


As a current CFIG, and a 70's era Army Huey (dustoff) pilot, in my humble
opinion helicopters are indeed harder to learn. The control touch is simply
much more sensitive in all axes than in gliders.

Now, to fly either one well is probably equally challenging.

Learning to hover and learning to tow are remarkably similar in terms of the
skill set required to succeed.

You know how a new glider student on tow slips a little out of position,
then overcorrects and ends up out of position on the other side, then
overcorrects a little more, and ends up even farther out of position on the
first side, etc? Ever increasing oscillations on the tow rope until the CFIG
takes over, recovers, and lets the student try again?

The exact same oscillating cycle occurs when a new student first tries to
hover a helicopter. And the exact same correction by the CFI-H.

I can explain this a lot better, but I have to use my hands, and they seem
to be on a keyboard right now.

There is a video on the internet somewhere (perhaps 5Z will point it out,
because he showed it to me?) that shows a guy who tries to make his first
flight ever in a Hughes 269/300, SOLO. Gets into the oscillation, and since
there is no CFI-H to save his bacon, he wrecks his new helicopter after
about 20 seconds (or less) of total flight time.

JMHO,
Bullwinkle

On 6/25/07 7:43 PM, in article ,
"Bullwinkle" wrote:

On 6/25/07 7:01 PM, in article
, "flying_monkey"
wrote:

Yes, the R-22 is certainly "twitchy." But I've been told that if one
can fly that, there's no helicopter that they won't be able to
handle. Or maybe one should learn on something "easier" and then be
basically barred from flying the most common helo in the world. Maybe
it's like taildraggers. If you learn from scratch in one, it's no big
deal. By the time you can fly the airplane and land it, you can
handle that or probably most any taildragger. But if you learn in a
tri-gear airplane, you're basically barred from more than half of the
Sport Pilot capable airplanes.

My first flight with Chris Townsend was an introductory flight
lesson. It had flight instruction in it, but there was also a lot of
demonstration aspects to it, like confined area landing and takeoff,
and one-skid landings to drop off a passenger. When it came time to
demonstrate an autorotation, and he had me close the throttle at about
800 feet, I was nervous, as I've watched many of those from the ground
in everything from R-22s to UH-1s. He brought that little helo to a
full stop on the ground without ever touching the throttle, and made
it seem easy. I asked him, "If I were to learn to fly this helo from
you all the way to my license, would I be allowed to do autos to
touchdown?" He replied: "I'm sure not going to even solo you in this
until you can do autos to touchdown time after time." I have no doubt
he would have been able to teach that, even though I don't think
there's a single operator in the US which does touchdown autos in
R-22s.

Ed


As a current CFIG, and a 70's era Army Huey (dustoff) pilot, in my humble
opinion helicopters are indeed harder to learn. The control touch is simply
much more sensitive in all axes than in gliders.

Now, to fly either one well is probably equally challenging.

Learning to hover and learning to tow are remarkably similar in terms of the
skill set required to succeed.

You know how a new glider student on tow slips a little out of position,
then overcorrects and ends up out of position on the other side, then
overcorrects a little more, and ends up even farther out of position on the
first side, etc? Ever increasing oscillations on the tow rope until the CFIG
takes over, recovers, and lets the student try again?

The exact same oscillating cycle occurs when a new student first tries to
hover a helicopter. And the exact same correction by the CFI-H.

I can explain this a lot better, but I have to use my hands, and they seem
to be on a keyboard right now.

There is a video on the internet somewhere (perhaps 5Z will point it out,
because he showed it to me?) that shows a guy who tries to make his first
flight ever in a Hughes 269/300, SOLO. Gets into the oscillation, and since
there is no CFI-H to save his bacon, he wrecks his new helicopter after
about 20 seconds (or less) of total flight time.

JMHO,
Bullwinkle

OK, found it myself.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...=helicopter++c
rash&total=2352&start=10&num=10&so=0&type=search&p lindex=2

Bullwinkle