Gasohol

"Morgans" writes:


The pipeline people send many various grades of gas, all through the same
pipeline. They may send 95 octane straight gas for 4 hours, then switch to
82 octane for 2 hours, and so on, with the right storage facilities along
the way intercepting it, and putting it into separate tanks. I believe how
they know how to switch over, is to first know how long the switch in types
to get to them, then the senders put a dye package into the fuel to alert
the storage and distribution people that it is time to switch some valves,
and send the next fuel into a different tank.

Pretty close.

We never used dye. The operator has a stainless sink that drains into the
slop tank. In it is a large graduated cylinder. The faucet samples the
incoming line and pours into the cylinder; it oveflows into the sink. He
has an approprite hydrometer bobbing in it.

He "makes the cut" by observing the color change and the specific
gravity. He punches the [explosion-proof, of course!] pushbutton on the
valve panel when it's time.

He may cut early. middle or late; it depends on the two products. The
schedulers try to make adjacent 'tenders' friendly. Say $2 Fuel Oil
followed by Jet-A. That would be an late cut; he waits until he's sure
it's all Jet-A then he swings the valve. A few barrels of Jet-A aka
Kerosene will not hurt 100,000 bbls of #2FO.

If an unfriendly cut, say gas to Jet-A; he'll cut early to the slop
tank, and then ~~5-10 min later to Jet-A.

The slop tank is eventually emptied by being slowly injected into
a Kero/FO incoming stream; the tank is later tested to be sure its
flashpoint remains above 110F.


Specialty fuels may not travel the pipeline, but be shipped some
distances by tanker truck, or barge.

Fuels such as.... AvGas.
--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

"David Lesher" wrote in message ...

We never used dye. The operator has a stainless sink that drains into the
slop tank. In it is a large graduated cylinder. The faucet samples the
incoming line and pours into the cylinder; it oveflows into the sink. He
has an approprite hydrometer bobbing in it.

He "makes the cut" by observing the color change and the specific
gravity. He punches the [explosion-proof, of course!] pushbutton on the
valve panel when it's time.

He may cut early. middle or late; it depends on the two products. The
schedulers try to make adjacent 'tenders' friendly. Say $2 Fuel Oil
followed by Jet-A. That would be an late cut; he waits until he's sure
it's all Jet-A then he swings the valve. A few barrels of Jet-A aka
Kerosene will not hurt 100,000 bbls of #2FO.

If an unfriendly cut, say gas to Jet-A; he'll cut early to the slop
tank, and then ~~5-10 min later to Jet-A.

The slop tank is eventually emptied by being slowly injected into
a Kero/FO incoming stream; the tank is later tested to be sure its
flashpoint remains above 110F.


Specialty fuels may not travel the pipeline, but be shipped some
distances by tanker truck, or barge.

Fuels such as.... AvGas.
--

Thanks Dave! Can 87 octane be mixed with ~93 octane to arrive at 90 octane? Seems like a lot of black magic (no pun
intended) in the oil business...

"Blueskies" writes:

--

Thanks Dave! Can 87 octane be mixed with ~93 octane to arrive at 90 octane? Seems like a lot of black magic (no pun
intended) in the oil business...



{please trim your quotes...}

We didn't {it was a Marketing function} but yes. Sunoco was the most
visible; their pump took both base [86 octane, ISTM] and high test & you
set the ratio before lifting the nozzle. Others did so in a less obvious
manner.

Most of the ''magic'' is marketing hype. It used to be "spot" gas [aka
noname] was dubious; maybe old, etc.. Since fuel injected cars took over;
IMHO 99.99% of gas is all the same, save the uniform on the attendent.

--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

("David Lesher" wrote)
Since fuel injected cars took over; IMHO 99.99% of gas is all the same,
save the uniform on the attendent.


Attendant? :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesoro
Tesoro's "fuel terminal" (in Roseville, MN) has pumps, and no building -
just credit card payment boxes. It's the only place in the Twin Cities I've
been able to find 87 OXY-Free. The other 'far-and-few-between' Non-OXY
pumps, around town I've seen, are premium.


Paul-Mont

Blueskies wrote:




Thanks Dave! Can 87 octane be mixed with ~93 octane to arrive at 90 octane? Seems like a lot of black magic (no pun
intended) in the oil business...


That's exactly how they make the mid grade gas.

On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 00:15:25 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

"Morgans" writes:


The pipeline people send many various grades of gas, all through the same
pipeline. They may send 95 octane straight gas for 4 hours, then switch to
82 octane for 2 hours, and so on, with the right storage facilities along
the way intercepting it, and putting it into separate tanks. I believe how
they know how to switch over, is to first know how long the switch in types
to get to them, then the senders put a dye package into the fuel to alert
the storage and distribution people that it is time to switch some valves,
and send the next fuel into a different tank.

Pretty close.

We never used dye. The operator has a stainless sink that drains into the
slop tank. In it is a large graduated cylinder. The faucet samples the
incoming line and pours into the cylinder; it oveflows into the sink. He
has an approprite hydrometer bobbing in it.

Over 20 years ago I had the chance to tour the pumping and fuel
distribution control facility at a refinery. *Everything* was
controlled from that room. They measured flow rates
Vs time and claimed they could control the flow to the remote storage
facilities hundreds of miles away within several gallons. the system
was automated. The operator told it how many gallons of what to go
where. Different mixes and fuels were sent through the same pipeline
with no one on the other end to either make the switch or to monitor
it.

"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in message
...
We never used dye. The operator has a stainless sink that drains into the
slop tank. In it is a large graduated cylinder. The faucet samples the
incoming line and pours into the cylinder; it oveflows into the sink. He
has an approprite hydrometer bobbing in it.

Over 20 years ago I had the chance to tour the pumping and fuel
distribution control facility at a refinery. *Everything* was
controlled from that room. They measured flow rates
Vs time and claimed they could control the flow to the remote storage
facilities hundreds of miles away within several gallons. the system
was automated. The operator told it how many gallons of what to go
where. Different mixes and fuels were sent through the same pipeline
with no one on the other end to either make the switch or to monitor
it.


Were it only that the ATC system was so automatic, instead of so antiquated.
--
Matt Barrow
Performance Homes, LLC.
Cheyenne, WY

Matt Barrow wrote:
"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in message

Over 20 years ago I had the chance to tour the pumping and fuel
distribution control facility at a refinery. *Everything* was
controlled from that room. They measured flow rates
Vs time and claimed they could control the flow to the remote storage
facilities hundreds of miles away within several gallons. the system
was automated. The operator told it how many gallons of what to go
where. Different mixes and fuels were sent through the same pipeline
with no one on the other end to either make the switch or to monitor
it.


Were it only that the ATC system was so automatic, instead of so antiquated.

And about 15 years ago, the operators at the storage facilities in
Greensboro, NC were fined heavily for leaking fuels into ground water.
They tried to claim they didn't know it was happening.

Disk jockeys at the time were making fun of the fact that they pump
would meter out gas to the hundredth of a gallon, but they couldn't keep
track of the thousands that were pouring into the groundwater. 8*)

Greensboro is my hometown.

The operator told it how many gallons of what to go
where. Different mixes and fuels were sent through the same pipeline
with no one on the other end to either make the switch or to monitor
it.

Is there no diffusion at the boundaries?

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose writes:


Is there no diffusion at the boundaries?


There is some. How much is complex. It depends on what the two products
are, the rate, and a big issue, is the line kept tight?

By tight I mean, was it running non-stop at the same backpressure the
whole time? If the line went up & down in rate because they added pumps
or swung to a different tank, then there is a longer [time] or broader
[linear feet of product] mix region.

Some lines actually used spheres between, but they bring their own
problems...

For a real mess; picture a midline booster pump, only used for some
products. You must keep track of what product is now in the booster
station line section before you restart. No fair dumping Diesel or Kero
into the gas going by.... but the opposite is OK. [Too much gas in the
distillate is Not Allowed, but a bbl or 3 in a 100,000 bbl tank is no big
deal.]


--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433