Kills with Guns

Since I could not follow up on every detail as I did then over time you
may be right in the AMRAAM's but in the beginning the admission of who
or what aircraft was carrying them and even if they were entered into
the Gulf War were very sketchy in details. Fact was the F-15's retained
the AIM-7 longer because of vibration and flow-issues over the wing with
slammer's on the rails and the fact that they had a special Sparrow
tailored to their liking. The F-16 entered the Gulf Zone after the War
but in time to get the first AMRAAM kill (active pit bull as it was) and
then time moved on. The Sparrow was a favorite to the F-15 for a longer
time and especially the Israeli's who wanted the US to embargo it to the
Middle East but that did not last long. Main concerns were fratricide of
course, where the Sparrow could be made dumb but shutting off the radar
or the CW which in one case was documented by the IAF during the Bekaa,
but it was not to avoid a friendly it was to prevent the MiG from being
hit over Syria - an ROE no no. The first years of AMRAAM training
generally saw in the simulators the attrition of friendlies pretty high.
As to preferring the BVR to the WVR shot well I guess that is all good
bar talk but in reality things began to merge as the IR missiles became
stronger in range and ability to "see" a target - hence they were used
more and more in the forward hemisphere - while the Sparrow with its
large motor and warhead continued to run down targets better in the
stern. The Bekaa data would be the latest good sort out of missiles.
The Iraq data with all the US kills shows the trend moving to chasing
down the enemy although there were still a couple of good engagements
more of the classical style. Dorr has a great summary of the F-15 kills
in the Gulf War and I have summarized that and other inputs in the book
done during the events.

Now take all the lessosn from AIM ACE and yopu see as you said that the
air to air environment is getting real deadly to all players and the
ability to launch (F-Pole perhaps) far out makes a difference even over
sorting - so what would an Iranian Air War look like, that will be
interesting. But with MiG-31's, linked MiG-29M's and Su-30's, ground
SA-10 and SA-15's merged into an IADS the whole nice world of the F-15
and F-22 could suddenly pop holes - so I suspect they are working that
real carefully. Then again - the better pilot survives longer - and in
that he generally gets more kills regardless of his mount, but with an
enemy flying stronger machines both sides loose many more. And the
missiles like AMRAAM are slowly taking a back seat to some longer range
beauties - and again the race is on. So I am just offering you what I
had for the groups to ponder - there is no real message and it is my
opinions from about 35 years of being in the middle of a lot of it - so
if you don't like them fine




"TV" wrote in message
...
No offense, but your article format isn't easy to read. And I think
you're off with your AMRAAM #s. I believe the totals stand closer to
at least 6 rather than 4 (2 F16 Iraq, 2 F16 Bosnia, 2 F15 Bosnia).
And I'm not sure what your general points are.

"The most important lesson learned were based on the fact that the US
fighters could react quickly to threatening situations, they were very
difficult to see or hit, and the pilots could reverse a bad situation
rapidly without making themselves more vulnerable to random events"

More to the point, could you simply say they had better A-A training?
I don't understand the difficult to see bit, given that Western
fighters are typically larger. The lesson that experience counts, in
combat or anything else, it hardly new. And it was learned in
Linebacker via Top Gun (and FWS later) if it was forgotten.

"The US Navy had terrible luck with the Sparrow missile, the USAF and
Israeli Air Force had better, primarily due to land based operations
with more time and space for maintenance and checkout. The Navy relied
heavily on Sidewinder IR missiles, the USAF had to be embarrassed into
it."

I'm not sure where you got these ideas. The USAF had such success
with the Sparrow because a hand-picked unit of F-15 fighters, with the
best available NCTR technology (unavailable to the Navy) were given
the cherry-picked opportunities to pursue A-A BVR engagements. An
F-14 pilot is quoted as commenting that the AIM-7 is a magic bullet
once it gets off the rails. How many BVR engagements has the USN had?
One (by a panicky RIO)? And the USAF was embarrased into adopting the
Sidewinder? Professionally, Eagle Drivers are embarrased to be forced
into a dogfight (vs. smacking BVR), but I've never heard one be
embarrased by the AIM-9 unless they were on the receiving end of one
in training!

TV