flaps

On Jul 10, 9:37 am, Tina wrote:
It also seems you planned a nighttime arrivial with a known burned out
landing light.

Tina,
My understanding is that landing night is not a requirement for non
commerical flight

==============
Sec. 91.205 & 91.507
Powered civil aircraft with standard category U.S. airworthiness
certificates: Instrument and equipment requirements.
.............................
(4) If the aircraft is operated for hire, one electric landing light.
==============
During my training, my instructor had me landed with and without
landing light at night. I actually found it was easier to land
without landing light.

Little mistakes have a way of compounding themselves. You may want to
sit in a quiet place and think about your go - no go criteria for a
while. The two best outcomes of all of this is you made a safe trip,
and you have an opportunigy to make future trips safer.

Although I generally agree with your statement. I find your
comments to be somewhat condescending. I do not know Kobra
personally but I have read quite a few of his postings. He is an
experienced pilot who is always willing to share his experience be it
good or bad for all of us, pilots, to learn. I don't think that he
needs to be told 'to sit in a quiet place and think....' !


Hai Longworth

I agree, it is not, so long as it is not a 'for hire' flight.

Never the less, one might want to review the decision to make a flight
with an airplane that has to be landed in an unfamiliar confirguration
at night without a landing light.

I'm speaking as a non pilot here, so my concerns might be unfounded.

Tina,
My understanding is that landing night is not a requirement for non
commerical flight

==============

"Longworth" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Jul 10, 9:37 am, Tina wrote:
It also seems you planned a nighttime arrivial with a known burned out
landing light.

Tina,
My understanding is that landing night is not a requirement for non
commerical flight

==============
Sec. 91.205 & 91.507
Powered civil aircraft with standard category U.S. airworthiness
certificates: Instrument and equipment requirements.
............................
(4) If the aircraft is operated for hire, one electric landing light.
==============
During my training, my instructor had me landed with and without
landing light at night. I actually found it was easier to land
without landing light.

Little mistakes have a way of compounding themselves. You may want to
sit in a quiet place and think about your go - no go criteria for a
while. The two best outcomes of all of this is you made a safe trip,
and you have an opportunigy to make future trips safer.

Although I generally agree with your statement. I find your
comments to be somewhat condescending. I do not know Kobra
personally but I have read quite a few of his postings. He is an
experienced pilot who is always willing to share his experience be it
good or bad for all of us, pilots, to learn. I don't think that he
needs to be told 'to sit in a quiet place and think....' !


Hai Longworth


I agree with Tina, at least about re-thinking the sequence of risky
decisions that were made. The landing light was only one of those decisions.
The failure to notice trim adjustments not being required while extending
flaps, the failure to push the go-up lever and reconsider the approach, etc
are all risky decisions. Tina was pointing out that this flight was a series
of those events. It is ironic that the AOPAs Flight Safety Foundation
program this year is focused on breaking the chain of events (bad decisions)
that lead up to accidents. Kobra was skilled enough to force the final
result, but he kept throwing away his safety options along the way. Things
could have turned out much differently, and then we'd all be berating the
press for its one-sided coverage of another mishap; but that's another
thread...

Most likely your instructor had you land without the landing light as a
non-standard event that would be possible if the light burnt out while in
flight. I seriously doubt that an instructor would encourage any student or
pilot for that matter to intentionally depart for a flight after dark
knowing the landing light was inop.

I'm also willing to bet that most instructors teach students how to
go-around in the event the landing doesn't look or feel right, which Kobra
noted was the case here.

Nothing about this chain of events should be construed to be normal
practice. Tina is correct that we can all learn from this example of how
events get strung together and can lead up to a very risky situation.

--
Jim Carter
Rogers, Arkansas

Roger,

I subcribed to NASA Callback and had filed a NASA report once
(eventhough everything I did in that flight was legal). I think the
very fact that a pilot filed a report or posted their experience
indicates that he/she had reflected on the event, learned a lesson
from it and wanted to share the experience with others to learn. I
don't think that any pilot could honesty say that he/she had never
made a bad decision or an error.

Kobra was surprised that he did not notice that the flaps were
inoperative. He called his mechanic. He pondered about the
situation. He advised others to go practice no-flap landings. He
certainly DID think enough about the incidence to post it here. He
might have even thought about it while sitting in a quiet corner ;-)

Everytime that I read a post about some bad events from a fellow
pilot, I always cringe in seeing reprimanding or scolding remarks from
the Monday morning quarrterback or armchair pilots. It's a good thing
the Callback site does not have a readers' feedback option!

I have flown for less than 7 years and have just a bit shy of
700hrs. I have learned a lot about flying, about safety, about my own
capability and limitation skillwise and judgementwise from other
pilots, from posts such as this one by Kobra. I am a very safety
minded flyer. I do my best not to fly when being stressed, tired. I
am very lucky to have a constant copilot to share the workload. I
fully sympathize with the single pilot especially single pilot
IFR. Flying can be very demanding. I can see myself making the
same errors as confessed by other pilots under similar circumstances.
I am grateful to learn from their mistakes. I do not want to see
people gets discouraged or afraid of posting their flying experience
for fear of criticism or condemnation.

Hai Longworth

"Longworth" wrote in message
oups.com...
Roger,

I subcribed to NASA Callback and had filed a NASA report once
(eventhough everything I did in that flight was legal). I think the
very fact that a pilot filed a report or posted their experience
indicates that he/she had reflected on the event, learned a lesson
from it and wanted to share the experience with others to learn. I
don't think that any pilot could honesty say that he/she had never
made a bad decision or an error.

Amen.

Al G

On 07/11/07 07:01, Longworth wrote:

[ snip ]


I have flown for less than 7 years and have just a bit shy of
700hrs. I have learned a lot about flying, about safety, about my own
capability and limitation skillwise and judgementwise from other
pilots, from posts such as this one by Kobra. I am a very safety
minded flyer. I do my best not to fly when being stressed, tired. I
am very lucky to have a constant copilot to share the workload. I
fully sympathize with the single pilot especially single pilot
IFR. Flying can be very demanding. I can see myself making the
same errors as confessed by other pilots under similar circumstances.
I am grateful to learn from their mistakes. I do not want to see
people gets discouraged or afraid of posting their flying experience
for fear of criticism or condemnation.

Hai Longworth


I agree 100%, Hai. I hope Kobra and others continue to post these type
of accounts. I learn a lot by reading and participating.

Longworth wrote:
Everytime that I read a post about some bad events from a fellow
pilot, I always cringe in seeing reprimanding or scolding remarks from
the Monday morning quarrterback or armchair pilots. It's a good thing
the Callback site does not have a readers' feedback option!

Well said.
Dave
M35