Cessna Greenlights LSA

C,

You hit it right on the head. That is how much we will rent it for at
PAVCO.


You know what the Cessna LSA will cost? Otherwise, how would you arrive
at a rental price?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...
This should have a pretty significant impact on the cost of people
getting a license. If a brand new 172 goes for $110 to $130/hr then
one of the Cessna LSAs should be able to be rented for maybe $70/hr
with the lower fuel burn, cheaper plane, and lower insurance (2 seats
vs. 4).

You hit it right on the head. That is how much we will rent it for at
PAVCO. We will get at least one, maybe two. They will be a great
replacement for our 152s, which are getting a little long in the
tooth.

Most of the guys renting LSA aircraft so far have them set at ~$100.00 and
some more. The ones I've looked at are all small operation though and they
might not have the volume to support them at lower rates.

I pay $80.00 for a Zodiac at Lantana, FL. That same operation gets $75.00
for a 152 that I also fly often. Although I would love to see it, I don't see
how they will be able to rent a $100,000+ Cessna LSA for less than they now
charge for a $40,000 (generous estimate) 152.

"Nathan Young" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 20:04:47 -0400, "Morgans"

Now, if they would put something in it other than a Rotax.


I have heard several pilots and my A&P express disdain for Rotax
engines. Why is this? They certainly seem to be popular with the
homebuilt and LSA crew. I have no experience with the aviation
versions.

-Nathan


And they seem to power the predators OK...

Blueskies wrote:
"Nathan Young" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 20:04:47 -0400, "Morgans"

Now, if they would put something in it other than a Rotax.

I have heard several pilots and my A&P express disdain for Rotax
engines. Why is this? They certainly seem to be popular with the
homebuilt and LSA crew. I have no experience with the aviation
versions.

-Nathan


And they seem to power the predators OK...

I'd be interested to know what the problem is
as well... The 80 or so hours I've logged behind
them have been totally without issue. No mixture
control, no need for carb heat. The engine seems
more like a big electric motor with a speed control
than a gas engine.

Just to be clear, we're talking about the
4-stroke water-cooled 912, not a 2-stroke.

Ron Wanttaja wrote:

One reason: They don't like 100LL. They're approved (and certified) to operate
on it, but the lead forms an abrasive sludge that means the oil has to be
changed more frequently.

Not that big of a deal with a private owner, but an FBO won't like having to
take a rental off the line twice as often to change the oil.

The Rotax specified oil change interval if you run unleaded is 100
hours. If you use 100LL, it is 50 hours.

They're reasonably specific about what type of oil to use though - the
best seems to be semi-synthetic motorcycle oil. Full synthetic is also
a no-no if you're using 100LL.

What is the typical oil change interval for a Lycoming or Continental?
--
Andrew Rowley

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 19:04:40 +0200, Stefan wrote:

Ron Wanttaja schrieb:

One reason: They don't like 100LL.

Being designed to run on unleaded car gas is a disadvantage? Hilarious.
The world gets crazier every day.

It's certainly a disadvantage if unleaded car gas isn't available at the
airport.

We've got one airport locally that sells mogas. Last year a local LSA dealer
asked the local pilots to petition the supplier to change to PREMIMUM unleaded
instead of regular unleaded. Turns out the line of plane he was selling
required premium. The guy didn't care that it would run everyone ELSE'S costs
up; he was desperate for his customers to avoid leaded fuel.

Ron Wanttaja

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007 18:06:54 +0000 (UTC), (Paul
Tomblin) wrote:

In a previous article, "Matt Barrow" said:
Yeah, it does: first, car gas has other nasties, and second, it's seldom
available at airports. What's more, the FAA gets really ****ed if you pull a
LSA up to a Conoco or Diamond Shamrock station.

James Bond did it. Why can't I?

'Cause you don't own a tuxedo.

Besides, if I remember that movie, the airport was in the Caribbean (e.g., not
on US soil).

Ron Wanttaja

On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 10:20:48 +1000, Andrew Rowley wrote:

Ron Wanttaja wrote:

One reason: They don't like 100LL. They're approved (and certified) to operate
on it, but the lead forms an abrasive sludge that means the oil has to be
changed more frequently.

Not that big of a deal with a private owner, but an FBO won't like having to
take a rental off the line twice as often to change the oil.

The Rotax specified oil change interval if you run unleaded is 100
hours. If you use 100LL, it is 50 hours.

They're reasonably specific about what type of oil to use though - the
best seems to be semi-synthetic motorcycle oil. Full synthetic is also
a no-no if you're using 100LL.

What is the typical oil change interval for a Lycoming or Continental?

Typically 50 hours if the engine mounts a filter, 25 hours if it doesn't. It's
just that whole "abrasive sludge" thing, especially as it's getting into the
gearbox.

The fact is, Diamond initially sold the Katana with the Rotax (DA-20), then
apparently offered a upgraded 100 HP Rotax conversion (DA-20-A1), then finally
abandoned the Rotax for a Continental in the DA-20-C1. Certainly some FBOs
would be biased against the Rotax as something new, but I think if the promised
fuel and maintenance savings had come true, it would have overcome that.

Most of the homebuilders with 912s seem to like them; my own analysis of
homebuilt crashes shows the four-stroke Rotaxes are about as reliable as more
traditional engines. But there's a difference between fifty hours per year vs.
fifty hours per month.

Ron Wanttaja

Ron,

The fact is, Diamond initially sold the Katana with the Rotax (DA-20), then
apparently offered a upgraded 100 HP Rotax conversion (DA-20-A1), then finally
abandoned the Rotax for a Continental in the DA-20-C1.

Yeah, but why? Pure market acceptance problems in the US. They continued to sell
the Rotax variant in Europe.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Blueskies wrote:
"Nathan Young" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 20:04:47 -0400, "Morgans"

Now, if they would put something in it other than a Rotax.


I have heard several pilots and my A&P express disdain for Rotax
engines. Why is this? They certainly seem to be popular with the
homebuilt and LSA crew. I have no experience with the aviation
versions.

-Nathan


And they seem to power the predators OK...

That's a good point. There are going to be some very expereinced Rotax
mechanics coming out on the market because of that.