WWW II Plane

That sounds like an accident waiting to happen.


That's nothing compared to the procedure that Vigie (RA-5C) crews had to follow at non-Vigie ladder equipped bases:

1. Butt on one of the horizontal stabilizers.
2. Swing legs onto horizontal stabilizer.
3. Stand up carefully, to maintain balance. (Best not attempted when still a bit W0X0F from the night before).
4. Work your way forward along the turtleback, pilot first.
5. Pilot works way around rear cockpit, enters forward cockpit, closes canopy.
6. RAN enters rear cockpit, etc.

I'm reciting this from having observed a Vigie crew do this at the East Overshoe AFB transient line while I was in Base Ops munching on a one-handed culinary delight and refiguring our DD-175. Damndest thing I saw that day.

Vigie folks, please step in and correct this if I remembered it wrong.

--
Mike Kanze

"I knew I'd been living in Berkeley too long when I saw a sign that said 'Free Firewood' and my first thought was 'Who was Firewood and what did he do?'"

- John Berger

"Dave Kearton" wrote in message ...
Allen Epps wrote:
In article ,
Clark wrote:

Ed Rasimus wrote in
:

On Fri, 06 Jul 2007 20:18:11 +0200, Max Richter
wrote:

Now my questions: Is there a policy that Navy-planes have steps or
ladders build in them?

Can't speak for USN policy, but I can't think of any recent Navy
designs that didn't have some sort of fold-down/out steps.

No ladders = less stuff to be stowed on a flight deck and less to be
blown around a flight deck. Last USN carrier aircraft I can think of
without a ladder was the A-4. You could get on it during cross
countries and such by stepping on the wing drop tank fin thence the
wing and inch up the refueling probe. That's the way we did it in
training command anyway.

Pugs


That sounds like an accident waiting to happen.



--

Cheers

Dave Kearton

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 18:33:46 -0700, "Mike Kanze"
wrote:

That sounds like an accident waiting to happen.


That's nothing compared to the procedure that Vigie (RA-5C) crews had to follow at non-Vigie ladder equipped bases:

1. Butt on one of the horizontal stabilizers.
2. Swing legs onto horizontal stabilizer.
3. Stand up carefully, to maintain balance. (Best not attempted when still a bit W0X0F from the night before).
4. Work your way forward along the turtleback, pilot first.
5. Pilot works way around rear cockpit, enters forward cockpit, closes canopy.
6. RAN enters rear cockpit, etc.

I'm reciting this from having observed a Vigie crew do this at the East Overshoe AFB transient line while I was in Base Ops munching on a one-handed culinary delight and refiguring our DD-175. Damndest thing I saw that day.

Vigie folks, please step in and correct this if I remembered it wrong.


As an operator of a similarly sized single-seat, single-engine
aircraft, it reminds me of the drag chute installation process for the
F-105.

We'd carry an extra drag chute on cross-country flights stuffed into
the gun drum bay. If the base didn't have a replacement chute for us
or maintenance people qualified to repack, the aircrew was responsible
for installing the spare prior to flight.

The chute compartment was at the rear base of the vertical fin, atop
the engine tail cone. You had to muscle the chute and yourself onto
the slab, then climb up onto the tail cone, being careful not to step
on the speed-brake petals. Then stuff the chute in and close the
door--this was accomplished by climbing onto the door and jumping up
and down on it until it latched. To aid in this process there was a
hand hold slot in the rudder to stick your fingers into for balance.

Fun increased geometrically if it was rainy, snowy or cold.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 18:33:46 -0700, "Mike Kanze"
wrote:

That sounds like an accident waiting to happen.


That's nothing compared to the procedure that Vigie (RA-5C) crews had to
follow at non-Vigie ladder equipped bases:

1. Butt on one of the horizontal stabilizers.
2. Swing legs onto horizontal stabilizer.
3. Stand up carefully, to maintain balance. (Best not attempted when still
a bit W0X0F from the night before).
4. Work your way forward along the turtleback, pilot first.
5. Pilot works way around rear cockpit, enters forward cockpit, closes
canopy.
6. RAN enters rear cockpit, etc.

I'm reciting this from having observed a Vigie crew do this at the East
Overshoe AFB transient line while I was in Base Ops munching on a
one-handed culinary delight and refiguring our DD-175. Damndest thing I
saw that day.

Vigie folks, please step in and correct this if I remembered it wrong.


As an operator of a similarly sized single-seat, single-engine
aircraft, it reminds me of the drag chute installation process for the
F-105.

We'd carry an extra drag chute on cross-country flights stuffed into
the gun drum bay. If the base didn't have a replacement chute for us
or maintenance people qualified to repack, the aircrew was responsible
for installing the spare prior to flight.

The chute compartment was at the rear base of the vertical fin, atop
the engine tail cone. You had to muscle the chute and yourself onto
the slab, then climb up onto the tail cone, being careful not to step
on the speed-brake petals. Then stuff the chute in and close the
door--this was accomplished by climbing onto the door and jumping up
and down on it until it latched. To aid in this process there was a
hand hold slot in the rudder to stick your fingers into for balance.

Fun increased geometrically if it was rainy, snowy or cold.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"

F-4 was similar w/o the spare chute. A decidedly unfun task to stuff the
chute soooo ...
We tried to avoid chute-braked landings. Touchdown on the numbers at
significantly slower than optimum AOA and good ROD. Worked pretty good for
normal days. Then there was this time at Buckley, 5K altitude but on a 14K
long runway. No problem with good technique, eh? Well, a bit of a tailwind
changed that. Used 13,990' of that runway. No hot brakes!?!

R / John

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 14:10:30 -0500, "John Carrier"
wrote:

F-4 was similar w/o the spare chute. A decidedly unfun task to stuff the
chute soooo ...
We tried to avoid chute-braked landings. Touchdown on the numbers at
significantly slower than optimum AOA and good ROD. Worked pretty good for
normal days. Then there was this time at Buckley, 5K altitude but on a 14K
long runway. No problem with good technique, eh? Well, a bit of a tailwind
changed that. Used 13,990' of that runway. No hot brakes!?!

R / John


I always remember one of the first female crew-chiefs (AKA plane
captains in USN) that we got at Torrejon. A cute girl who was
determined to do anything the big guys could.

When it came to loading the drag chute, she found it difficult to get
the necessary leverage to muscle the tail cone door down, so she got a
big wooden rolling pine--it was the perfect size to fit the vent hole
at the back of the tail cone. Stuff the rolling pin into the hole and
suddenly you've got a two foot long handle to easily slam the door.

She painted it lavender and decorated it with tiny yellow and red
flowers so that none of the big manly crew-dogs would steal it.

She could do anything the guys could and a lot of it better. She was a
damn good crew chief.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

"Clark" wrote in message
...
"John Carrier" wrote in
:


"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 18:33:46 -0700, "Mike Kanze"
wrote:

That sounds like an accident waiting to happen.


That's nothing compared to the procedure that Vigie (RA-5C) crews had
to follow at non-Vigie ladder equipped bases:

1. Butt on one of the horizontal stabilizers.
2. Swing legs onto horizontal stabilizer.
3. Stand up carefully, to maintain balance. (Best not attempted when
still a bit W0X0F from the night before).
4. Work your way forward along the turtleback, pilot first.
5. Pilot works way around rear cockpit, enters forward cockpit, closes
canopy.
6. RAN enters rear cockpit, etc.

I'm reciting this from having observed a Vigie crew do this at the East
Overshoe AFB transient line while I was in Base Ops munching on a
one-handed culinary delight and refiguring our DD-175. Damndest thing I
saw that day.

Vigie folks, please step in and correct this if I remembered it wrong.


As an operator of a similarly sized single-seat, single-engine
aircraft, it reminds me of the drag chute installation process for the
F-105.

We'd carry an extra drag chute on cross-country flights stuffed into
the gun drum bay. If the base didn't have a replacement chute for us
or maintenance people qualified to repack, the aircrew was responsible
for installing the spare prior to flight.

The chute compartment was at the rear base of the vertical fin, atop
the engine tail cone. You had to muscle the chute and yourself onto
the slab, then climb up onto the tail cone, being careful not to step
on the speed-brake petals. Then stuff the chute in and close the
door--this was accomplished by climbing onto the door and jumping up
and down on it until it latched. To aid in this process there was a
hand hold slot in the rudder to stick your fingers into for balance.

Fun increased geometrically if it was rainy, snowy or cold.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"

F-4 was similar w/o the spare chute. A decidedly unfun task to stuff
the chute soooo ...
We tried to avoid chute-braked landings. Touchdown on the numbers at
significantly slower than optimum AOA and good ROD. Worked pretty good
for normal days. Then there was this time at Buckley, 5K altitude but
on a 14K long runway. No problem with good technique, eh? Well, a bit
of a tailwind changed that. Used 13,990' of that runway. No hot
brakes!?!

R / John

Maybe, just maybe the real problem was that Buckley only has an 11,000 ft
runway when you were expecting 14? Hey, what's 3K amongst friends?

Ahhhh!!! I suspect my problem is poor memory now vice expecting more
concrete then. That was a long time ago and I often display symptoms of
onset Alzheimers. In any case, I used just about all the runway had to
give.

R / John

Fun increased geometrically if it was rainy, snowy or cold.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

As a CrewChief/EWOP in EA-3Bs I used to complain about packing and
loading the Chute especially in the Hot Refuel pits. But after reading
you two gents adventures I feel better.


Rick
FMR USN A/C

There is the old VAH-5 "Skywarrior" story of the 3/crewman who forgot to
bring a spare drag chute on an RON (c. 1961.) They landed at their
destination in the rain so he took the chute, dried it out as best he
could, and repacked it before leaving the next day. Needless to say, on
landing back at NAS Sanford, FL, the next day, when the pilot pulled the
switch for the drag chute it fell out of its rear compartment and
bounced all the way down runway 9 (10,000' available for landing.) This
was written up on a naval aviation board years ago and I think is in one
of the A3D/A-3 monographs. I do remember that the tower got a good laugh
seeing the rather large package bouncing down the runway on the long
tether. Temps at 40k were not unknown to us, we used to make "cross
country navigational" hops to NAS Brunswick, ME, radio our order in to
ops, then a local lobster truck would bring the lobster packs to the
flight line. We'd load them on the bomb bay rack, climb to 40k or so,
they'd be blast frozen on arrival back at Sanford.
To keep on the subject, the A-3 was probably the only jet in which the
crew used the same 'ladder' to exit the a/c in an emergency as to enter it!
Joel McEachen VAH-5

R. Scott wrote:
Fun increased geometrically if it was rainy, snowy or cold.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)

As a CrewChief/EWOP in EA-3Bs I used to complain about packing and
loading the Chute especially in the Hot Refuel pits. But after reading
you two gents adventures I feel better.

Rick
FMR USN A/C

"J.McEachen" wrote in
et:

There is the old VAH-5 "Skywarrior" story of the 3/crewman who forgot to
bring a spare drag chute on an RON (c. 1961.) They landed at their
destination in the rain so he took the chute, dried it out as best he
could, and repacked it before leaving the next day. Needless to say, on
landing back at NAS Sanford, FL, the next day, when the pilot pulled the
switch for the drag chute it fell out of its rear compartment and
bounced all the way down runway 9 (10,000' available for landing.) This
was written up on a naval aviation board years ago and I think is in one
of the A3D/A-3 monographs. I do remember that the tower got a good laugh
seeing the rather large package bouncing down the runway on the long
tether. Temps at 40k were not unknown to us, we used to make "cross
country navigational" hops to NAS Brunswick, ME, radio our order in to
ops, then a local lobster truck would bring the lobster packs to the
flight line. We'd load them on the bomb bay rack, climb to 40k or so,
they'd be blast frozen on arrival back at Sanford.
To keep on the subject, the A-3 was probably the only jet in which the
crew used the same 'ladder' to exit the a/c in an emergency as to enter
it! Joel McEachen VAH-5

R. Scott wrote:
Fun increased geometrically if it was rainy, snowy or cold.

Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)

As a CrewChief/EWOP in EA-3Bs I used to complain about packing and
loading the Chute especially in the Hot Refuel pits. But after reading
you two gents adventures I feel better.

Rick
FMR USN A/C


I used to work at OMD in B'wick ('70 - '73), and helped many an aircrew
load lobsters, into everything from a C-118 with no seats, to an A-37
Tweet.

Dave in San Diego

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 05:38:57 GMT, Dave wrote:

I used to work at OMD in B'wick ('70 - '73), and helped many an aircrew
load lobsters, into everything from a C-118 with no seats, to an A-37
Tweet.

Dave in San Diego

While I was serving in purgatory (Willie Air Patch flogging a T-37
with UPT students--a reward for my F-105 tour), we often would take a
Tweet on a Friday afternoon out-and-back to Navy North Island.

Hop on the ferry (AKA "nickel-snatcher") because this was before the
Coronado Bridge and hit the fish market. Pack up some fresh seafood in
a styrofoam box with dry ice and RTB to Willie in time for a nice
evening fish-fry and drink-a-thon.

Junior guy got to ride in the right seat with the box on his lap.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

"Coors runs" to NAS Meridian, MS from more blessed points west were comme il faut during the late 1960s - early 1970s before Coors achieved national distribution. Pretty standard drill - cross-county a T-2 from NMM to NAS Dallas, Buckley ANGB, or any other Coors-infested part of the west, buy your stock (no more than ~3 cases - the limit in the T-2 nose void), and wing your way back to The Heart Of The New South.

Normal return was ~0300 Monday. You always gave a strato-chilled six-pack to the duty line crew (for later, off-duty consumption).

Many folks will never appreciate how welcome this beverage was in a land of "county-option" liquor consumption and the likes of the much-despised Pearl beer brand.

--
Mike Kanze

Republican Sen. John McCain berated fellow lawmakers for "spending money like a drunken sailor." But one of his constituents took offense at this comparison, saying, "As a former drunken sailor, I take offense at being compared to Congress!"


"Ed Rasimus" wrote in message ...
On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 05:38:57 GMT, Dave wrote:

I used to work at OMD in B'wick ('70 - '73), and helped many an aircrew
load lobsters, into everything from a C-118 with no seats, to an A-37
Tweet.

Dave in San Diego

While I was serving in purgatory (Willie Air Patch flogging a T-37
with UPT students--a reward for my F-105 tour), we often would take a
Tweet on a Friday afternoon out-and-back to Navy North Island.

Hop on the ferry (AKA "nickel-snatcher") because this was before the
Coronado Bridge and hit the fish market. Pack up some fresh seafood in
a styrofoam box with dry ice and RTB to Willie in time for a nice
evening fish-fry and drink-a-thon.

Junior guy got to ride in the right seat with the box on his lap.


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com