Jumbo Tanker Accident

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

DOI: 6/18/2005
Certificate: PRIVATE PILOT

That's pushing it for a Mustang, isn't it? Licensed in 2005?

Rating(s):
PRIVATE PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE

On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:50:58 -0700, "Gatt"
wrote:


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
.. .

DOI: 6/18/2005
Certificate: PRIVATE PILOT

That's pushing it for a Mustang, isn't it? Licensed in 2005?

Rating(s):
PRIVATE PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE


Isn't the DOI referencing the latest privelege or rating issued? So
he could have been private for 20 years and just now picked up his
AMEL-IA.

Peter Clark wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:50:58 -0700, "Gatt"
wrote:


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

DOI: 6/18/2005
Certificate: PRIVATE PILOT

That's pushing it for a Mustang, isn't it? Licensed in 2005?

Rating(s):
PRIVATE PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE


Isn't the DOI referencing the latest privelege or rating issued? So
he could have been private for 20 years and just now picked up his
AMEL-IA.

Not only that if a pilot gets a new certificate for any reason, like just
wanting one of the plastic ones, the date will be reset.

Also keep in mind that the guys who flew these back in the 40's while
getting shot at usually had less than 2 years experience flying.

"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...

Also keep in mind that the guys who flew these back in the 40's while
getting shot at usually had less than 2 years experience flying.

True. But most of that flying time was training in a phased and regimented
course on a full-time basis. In other words, they were -full time- 90 day
wonders.

A civilian pilot can get his complex, high performance and taildragger
ratings at his leisure and without as much persistence and currency as
somebody who had a full-time flight instruction every day for three months.
In addition, the 90-day wonders who flew Mustangs back in the day were the
ones who weren't washed out first. They couldn't just lay out a few
thousand dollars and buy themselves a checkout in a P-51. If they weren't
skilled and better-than-average pilots by the time they got near a Mustang,
they'd have never flown one.

-c

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 13:57:47 -0700, Richard Riley
wrote:

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 08:53:00 -0700, "Gatt"
wrote:


"Gig 601XL Builder" wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote in message
...

Also keep in mind that the guys who flew these back in the 40's while
getting shot at usually had less than 2 years experience flying.

True. But most of that flying time was training in a phased and regimented
course on a full-time basis. In other words, they were -full time- 90 day
wonders.

A civilian pilot can get his complex, high performance and taildragger
ratings at his leisure and without as much persistence and currency as
somebody who had a full-time flight instruction every day for three months.
In addition, the 90-day wonders who flew Mustangs back in the day were the
ones who weren't washed out first. They couldn't just lay out a few
thousand dollars and buy themselves a checkout in a P-51. If they weren't
skilled and better-than-average pilots by the time they got near a Mustang,
they'd have never flown one.

And I've read (but cannot verify) that more WW2 fighters and pilots
were lost in accidents than in combat. So even the full time
non-wash-out 90 day wonders had their own bad days.

One a day in Tampa Bay!

Think of it this way. Currently the primary training is done
contract. They are expected to earn the PPL in 50 hours if I read
correctly.

Richard Riley wrote:
On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 03:31:48 -0400, "Roger (K8RI)"
wrote:


And I've read (but cannot verify) that more WW2 fighters and pilots
were lost in accidents than in combat. So even the full time
non-wash-out 90 day wonders had their own bad days.

One a day in Tampa Bay!

Think of it this way. Currently the primary training is done
contract. They are expected to earn the PPL in 50 hours if I read
correctly.

IIRC the national average for ordinary, walk in off the streets ab
initio civilian pilot gets his PPL in about 62 hrs. So 50 for an
intelligent, motivated, young student who's doing nothing but is
certainly possible.

It almost always takes less total hours to learn something if you
are in "class" 8 hours a day, every day as oppossed to 1 or 2 hours
once a week or so.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 16:04:59 GMT, wrote:


It almost always takes less total hours to learn something if you
are in "class" 8 hours a day, every day as oppossed to 1 or 2 hours
once a week or so.

I flew twice a week and studied hard, with some multi-week weather and
vacation breaks. My check ride was my 47th and 48th total hours
towards my PPL, and I switched from Warriors to a Sundowner @ 20 hrs.
TT. I "taught" my CFI to fly the Sundowner after digesting the POH
and developing checklists and V-speed sheets.

I'm sure a PP-ASEL would go even faster for a young,
studious,"all-day" student.

"Richard Riley" wrote:


And I've read (but cannot verify) that more WW2 fighters and pilots
were lost in accidents than in combat.

A veteran of the battles of Midway and Guadalcanal told me the same thing,
and the difference in numbers wasn't small, either.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

Peter

I was one of those WWII guys that ended up in a P-51. First got about
10-12 back seat landings in a T-6. Then checked out in the P-40. Then
went to a 51 Squadron and got a briefing from an old head on engine
operation and takeoff and landing speeds and then flew the bird. Don't
remember many accidents on check out in 51. Certainly not like the
original B-26 (one a day in Tampa bay).

Big John
************************************************** ****


On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 08:23:44 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:

Peter Clark wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:50:58 -0700, "Gatt"
wrote:


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

DOI: 6/18/2005
Certificate: PRIVATE PILOT

That's pushing it for a Mustang, isn't it? Licensed in 2005?

Rating(s):
PRIVATE PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE


Isn't the DOI referencing the latest privelege or rating issued? So
he could have been private for 20 years and just now picked up his
AMEL-IA.

Not only that if a pilot gets a new certificate for any reason, like just
wanting one of the plastic ones, the date will be reset.

Also keep in mind that the guys who flew these back in the 40's while
getting shot at usually had less than 2 years experience flying.

Here is an extract from the NTSB report on the P-51 accident.
************************************************** ***********

According to preliminary information provided by Camarillo Air Traffic
Control Tower personnel, the airplane, with the private pilot and a
flight instructor on board, flew into the airport and made a full stop
landing. The flight instructor exited the airplane after informing the
tower that the pilot would be performing his first solo flight in the
airplane. The airplane departed on runway 26, remained in the traffic
pattern and returned for a landing on runway 26. Two controllers
observed the airplane touch down and then become airborne again. At
that point, it appeared to them that the pilot initiated a go around,
and the airplane immediately rolled left and impacted the ground
beside the runway in an inverted position.

************************************************** **************

This describes a classic torque roll with high power, low airspeed and
not leading with enought right rudder to counter the torque

I saw several of these first hand dring my years flying the P-51. We
ended up teaching new checkouts to only use 30 or so inches on go
around (at least until they got some airspeed back up and had enough
rudder to hold the torque).

A bloody shame to lose both the pilot and aircraft.

Big John
*************************************************



On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 21:09:19 -0500, Big John
wrote:

Peter

I was one of those WWII guys that ended up in a P-51. First got about
10-12 back seat landings in a T-6. Then checked out in the P-40. Then
went to a 51 Squadron and got a briefing from an old head on engine
operation and takeoff and landing speeds and then flew the bird. Don't
remember many accidents on check out in 51. Certainly not like the
original B-26 (one a day in Tampa bay).

Big John
************************************************* *****


On Wed, 18 Jul 2007 08:23:44 -0500, "Gig 601XL Builder"
wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net wrote:

Peter Clark wrote:
On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 16:50:58 -0700, "Gatt"
wrote:


"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

DOI: 6/18/2005
Certificate: PRIVATE PILOT

That's pushing it for a Mustang, isn't it? Licensed in 2005?

Rating(s):
PRIVATE PILOT
AIRPLANE SINGLE ENGINE LAND
AIRPLANE MULTIENGINE LAND
INSTRUMENT AIRPLANE


Isn't the DOI referencing the latest privelege or rating issued? So
he could have been private for 20 years and just now picked up his
AMEL-IA.

Not only that if a pilot gets a new certificate for any reason, like just
wanting one of the plastic ones, the date will be reset.

Also keep in mind that the guys who flew these back in the 40's while
getting shot at usually had less than 2 years experience flying.