The ethanol scam

Jay Honeck wrote:

Write your Congress Critters. The politicians are leading us down
this path for purely political purposes, and it's up to us to stop it.
--

They are not interested in logic... they are driven by polls and
elections. They will say and do whatever is expedient in order to
get the glowing admiration of the press and Hollyweird.

Boy, nothing burns me up more than the press sticking a microphone in front
of an actor walking down the red carpet at a movie premier and asking them
"Who are you supporting in the presidential election?" as if the public is
supposed to blindly follow the politics of an actor just because they may be
a fan of their acting ability???!! WTF?!

Are these the future press room questions?: "I ask you Madam President,
since you received such glowing endorsements from the Hollyweird Elite, when
will you begin your scientologist approved, vegetarian and PETA endorsed eco
tour of Africa so you can illegally adopt a child of your own? Will this be
before your anorexia/alcohol/drug/racial hatred rehabilitation or after
you're released from house arrest from your DUI?"

Jim

"ktbr" wrote in message
...
Jay Honeck wrote:

Write your Congress Critters. The politicians are leading us down
this path for purely political purposes, and it's up to us to stop it.
--

They are not interested in logic... they are driven by polls and
elections. They will say and do whatever is expedient in order to
get the glowing admiration of the press and Hollyweird.

Jim could you share with us your take on farm subsidies encouraging
monoculturing and overproduction of corn for high fructose corn syrup
and soy for the protein equivalent?

Ethanol and hydrogen were long ago coopted from the left by big energy
and agribusiness, but there has been a fair amount of press recently
along the lines of "processed foods are the reason our kids are fat
and lazy," along with data on the increase in production of
high-fructose syrup to show a correlation.

Don

Sorry for being longwinded, but you asked several interesting questions.

I'm in Wisconsin, not much in the way of high fructose corn refineries here.
Corn and soybeans are simple commodities, raw materials for processors.
Traditionally there hasn't been a large "carry-over" of corn from one year
to the next, so to say that there is an overproduction of corn wouldn't be
entirely accurate, but the percentage of production going towards hfcs has
no doubt steadily increased. I believe that cheap corn has lead to higher
profits for food companies vs if they would be forced to use cane or beet
sugar, but I think that they would still create, produce, and market an
equal amount of products because the demand for those products is there to
be met.

Just look at all the soda that is consumed today vs 10 years ago. I think
that if corn was twice it's current price the soda and food companies would
produce and sell just as much junk food as they do now. Just as with a box
of cereal, monetarily the portion of a finished product that can be traced
back to the corn itself, is very very insignificant, even on a large scale.
I believe that the current social structure in America presents the food
companies with a market is ripe to exploit. Relatively inexpensive pre
packaged and prepared foods, adequate expendable income, sedentary
lifestyles, latch key households, fast food, heck even labor laws have
contributed to more and more kids "having nothing to do" but sit and eat.
And they eat what tastes good.

To your question of monoculture, it's simply economics. The subsidies are
not enough to sway a farmer from planting one crop over another. Most
farmers are more dependent on crops that excel in their particular area,
relying on growing conditions, weather, soil types, and potential yields to
make or break them than what little the subsidies contribute. For instance,
we live north far enough that poor yields and annual harvest conditions
prevent us from even considering soybeans, even if there were a 10-20%
subsidy. Corn works for us because we can plant short maturity varieties
that yield well and harvest conditions are still hospitable well into
October. The current corn subsidy we receive is about $20 per acre, we'll
spend twice that much on electricity to pump water to irrigate it. The seed
costs 10 times that amount.

Often times monoculture is the result of crop rotation. That sounds
backwards but when we plant our other crops up to an acreage limit that we
are financially comfortable at, corn has historically been planted as a
"filler". It's a crop that is predictable, grows well, isn't susceptible to
large weather events, and once dried, it can keep almost forever. We're
shipping corn out right now that is 3 years old, we've held it this long
because this is the first time it's been above the cost of production. So,
to keep a healthy rotation, to add humus to the soil, and to control weeds
between other crops, we plant corn. Most of the time we'd rather raise
something else.

Hope this helped.
Jim

"Don Tuite" wrote in message
...
Jim could you share with us your take on farm subsidies encouraging
monoculturing and overproduction of corn for high fructose corn syrup
and soy for the protein equivalent?

Ethanol and hydrogen were long ago coopted from the left by big energy
and agribusiness, but there has been a fair amount of press recently
along the lines of "processed foods are the reason our kids are fat
and lazy," along with data on the increase in production of
high-fructose syrup to show a correlation.

Don

Thanks JIm.

Don

On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 16:08:01 -0500, "Jim Burns"
wrote:

Sorry for being longwinded, but you asked several interesting questions.

I'm in Wisconsin, not much in the way of high fructose corn refineries here.
Corn and soybeans are simple commodities, raw materials for processors.
Traditionally there hasn't been a large "carry-over" of corn from one year
to the next, so to say that there is an overproduction of corn wouldn't be
entirely accurate, but the percentage of production going towards hfcs has
no doubt steadily increased. I believe that cheap corn has lead to higher
profits for food companies vs if they would be forced to use cane or beet
sugar, but I think that they would still create, produce, and market an
equal amount of products because the demand for those products is there to
be met.

Just look at all the soda that is consumed today vs 10 years ago. I think
that if corn was twice it's current price the soda and food companies would
produce and sell just as much junk food as they do now. Just as with a box
of cereal, monetarily the portion of a finished product that can be traced
back to the corn itself, is very very insignificant, even on a large scale.
I believe that the current social structure in America presents the food
companies with a market is ripe to exploit. Relatively inexpensive pre
packaged and prepared foods, adequate expendable income, sedentary
lifestyles, latch key households, fast food, heck even labor laws have
contributed to more and more kids "having nothing to do" but sit and eat.
And they eat what tastes good.

To your question of monoculture, it's simply economics. The subsidies are
not enough to sway a farmer from planting one crop over another. Most
farmers are more dependent on crops that excel in their particular area,
relying on growing conditions, weather, soil types, and potential yields to
make or break them than what little the subsidies contribute. For instance,
we live north far enough that poor yields and annual harvest conditions
prevent us from even considering soybeans, even if there were a 10-20%
subsidy. Corn works for us because we can plant short maturity varieties
that yield well and harvest conditions are still hospitable well into
October. The current corn subsidy we receive is about $20 per acre, we'll
spend twice that much on electricity to pump water to irrigate it. The seed
costs 10 times that amount.

Often times monoculture is the result of crop rotation. That sounds
backwards but when we plant our other crops up to an acreage limit that we
are financially comfortable at, corn has historically been planted as a
"filler". It's a crop that is predictable, grows well, isn't susceptible to
large weather events, and once dried, it can keep almost forever. We're
shipping corn out right now that is 3 years old, we've held it this long
because this is the first time it's been above the cost of production. So,
to keep a healthy rotation, to add humus to the soil, and to control weeds
between other crops, we plant corn. Most of the time we'd rather raise
something else.

Hope this helped.
Jim

"Don Tuite" wrote in message
.. .
Jim could you share with us your take on farm subsidies encouraging
monoculturing and overproduction of corn for high fructose corn syrup
and soy for the protein equivalent?

Ethanol and hydrogen were long ago coopted from the left by big energy
and agribusiness, but there has been a fair amount of press recently
along the lines of "processed foods are the reason our kids are fat
and lazy," along with data on the increase in production of
high-fructose syrup to show a correlation.

Don

Jim Burns wrote:
Boy, nothing burns me up more than the press sticking a microphone in
front of an actor walking down the red carpet at a movie premier and
asking them "Who are you supporting in the presidential election?"
as if the public is supposed to blindly follow the politics of an
actor just because they may be a fan of their acting ability???!!
WTF?!

Are these the future press room questions?: "I ask you Madam
President, since you received such glowing endorsements from the
Hollyweird Elite, when will you begin your scientologist approved,
vegetarian and PETA endorsed eco tour of Africa so you can illegally
adopt a child of your own? Will this be before your
anorexia/alcohol/drug/racial hatred rehabilitation or after you're
released from house arrest from your DUI?"


ROFL.... BUT It isn't Hollywood's fault they are stupid and a lot of them
really think what they are saying is good for the planet/country/whatever.
Add they might actually think they know what they are talking about because
they surround themselves with people who tell them that everything they do
is perfect. Much like the Kings of yesteryear.

It isn't the media's fault because they are just reporting what the public
wants to hear and see. Remember, you live in a country where the two biggest
news stories over last year were "who was the father of a sometimes fat,
dead stripper's baby" and that some little slut that you wouldn't let your
son date spent a couple of weeks in jail.

I also hate to admit it but it isn't the fault of the politicians either.
Many are just like those in Hollywood in that they think their crap doesn't
stink because there are so many people around them telling them so. And all
of them have to get reelected so they fall under the same problem the media
has.

Only one group is to blame and that is us, the voters. Until at least 50% +
1 of us pull our collective heads out of our asses we are well and truly
screwed.

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

Only one group is to blame and that is us, the voters. Until at least 50% +
1 of us pull our collective heads out of our asses we are well and truly
screwed.


Government is throwing money hand over fist at the effort to dumb down
America en mass so that that doesn't happen. So far its working well.

kontiki wrote:
Gig 601XL Builder wrote:

Only one group is to blame and that is us, the voters. Until at
least 50% + 1 of us pull our collective heads out of our asses we
are well and truly screwed.


Government is throwing money hand over fist at the effort to dumb down
America en mass so that that doesn't happen. So far its working well.

Again, blame the public not those that are elected by the public. Just like
you shouldn't blame a gun when it shoots someone or a plane when it hits a
building.