Bomber-jacket leather and our law

Cub Driver wrote in message . ..
The AN-J-4 wasn't standardized until mid '43, and didn't reach flyers
until '44. The AVG guys are wearing USN M-445s.

Actually, no.

No what? The only sheepskin jackets I've seen worn by AVG guys were
Navy jackets. Whether they brought them with them, or the Chinese
bought them for them, I can't saw for sure. But *NO ONE* was wearing
and AN-J-4 in '42. Whether or not any of the AAC guys brought along
B-3s, I don't know. I've never seen a photo of anyone wearing one.

I won't go into the niceties of A dash and M dash jackets,

The "A" jackets are AAC/AAF, the "M" jacket are USN. AAC/AAF garments
with the "A" prefix are usually considered to be summer wear and those
with a "B" to be winter wear. Is there something beyond that that I
need enlightened about?

but the AVG pilots were told to bring their own flight
jackets with them. So the army pilots for the most part wore the same
jackets they'd worn in the Army Air Corps--not navy issue.

I'm well aware that some AAC AVG pilots (and ground crew) brought
along A-2s and other various AAC gear. But the AVG pilots used lots
of Navy flight gear, regardless of which branch they came from.

~Michael

On 19 Sep 2003 08:11:15 -0700, (Michael) wrote:

and AN-J-4 in '42. Whether or not any of the AAC guys brought along
B-3s, I don't know. I've never seen a photo of anyone wearing one.

Nevertheless, of 99 AVG pilots, maybe 40 were from the Army Air Corps,
and almost all of them brought their flight jackets with them.

Have you got a copy of R T Smith's Tale of a Tiger? Duke Hedman I
believe was an army pilot; he's shown wearing a flight jacket on p.
166.

Jim Cross p. 131

Oley Olson is wearing a shearling jacket p. 180. But he was a squadron
leader and would have qualified for a new jacket! Evidently a bunch of
jackets came in, because there's a portrait of the 3rd Sq ground crew
on p. 178 and most of the men are wearing those shearling-line
jackets. They aren't shown in any of the early photographs.

Here's an interesting one: p. 339. Standing on left is Erik Shilling,
late of this newsgroup, wearing a jacket that is distinctly different
from the others. Perhaps it is brown? It appears to have no fuzzy
collar. Standing beside him is Oley Olson (who may just possibly have
his hands in his pants pocket, Art wearing a black? jacket with a
moulton? collar, which is what most of the others are wearing. Olson
and Shilling are both army pilots. Seated left to right are R T Smith,
army, same jacket as Olson; Jernstedt, marines, a cloth jacket?; then
Prescott, Laughlin, and Reed, all wearing the Olson-type jacket.

Anyone got this book & care to comment?

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Cub Driver wrote in message . ..
On 19 Sep 2003 08:11:15 -0700, (Michael) wrote:

and AN-J-4 in '42. Whether or not any of the AAC guys brought along
B-3s, I don't know. I've never seen a photo of anyone wearing one.

Nevertheless, of 99 AVG pilots, maybe 40 were from the Army Air Corps,
and almost all of them brought their flight jackets with them.

I don't know. I've got a buddy who's way more into the AVG than me,
and a couple years ago when he went through all the photos he had. He
found 13 or 14 AVG pilots wearing A-2s (and maybe a dozen more ground
crew and staff).

Have you got a copy of R T Smith's Tale of a Tiger? Duke Hedman I
believe was an army pilot; he's shown wearing a flight jacket on p.
166.

Jim Cross p. 131

Oley Olson is wearing a shearling jacket p. 180. But he was a squadron
leader and would have qualified for a new jacket! Evidently a bunch of
jackets came in, because there's a portrait of the 3rd Sq ground crew
on p. 178 and most of the men are wearing those shearling-line
jackets. They aren't shown in any of the early photographs.

Simple way to identify if it's an USN M-445 or AAC B-3.... The B-3
will have leather reinforcing most of the way down the sleeves, the
M-445 will have diamond shaped reinforcing just at the elbow. The
M-445 will have two button patch pockets on the front, the B-3 will
have one open slash pocket/pouch on the front right. A friend of mine
says he's seen photos of two AVG guys wearing B-3s so some did make it
there.

Here's an interesting one: p. 339. Standing on left is Erik Shilling,
late of this newsgroup, wearing a jacket that is distinctly different
from the others. Perhaps it is brown? It appears to have no fuzzy
collar. Standing beside him is Oley Olson (who may just possibly have
his hands in his pants pocket, Art wearing a black? jacket with a
moulton? collar, which is what most of the others are wearing. Olson
and Shilling are both army pilots. Seated left to right are R T Smith,
army, same jacket as Olson; Jernstedt, marines, a cloth jacket?; then
Prescott, Laughlin, and Reed, all wearing the Olson-type jacket.

Anyone got this book & care to comment?

I don't have the book you mention, but I'm familiar with photo you are
refrencing. Shilling has on an A-2 (that is a much lighter brown than
the other jackets), and all the rest of the guys with leather jackets
on are wearing M-422s (they have the fur collar and are so dark of
brown they look black in color photos). Look through your photos,
you'll find the vast majority of AVG pilots (regardless of previous
service) wearing the fur collared USN M-422, though the AAC A-2 was
around. R.T. Smith appears in many photos wearing his M-422.

~Michael