VOR approach SMO

Do you have an instrument rating?

Help me understand how DME permits you to descent to 680 "far before CULVE."

karl gruber wrote:

Not with DME, you'll be at 680 far before CULVE.

Karl
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...

On Jul 23, 1:18 pm, "karl gruber" wrote:

Where are you digging up such erroneous thoughts?

With 800/3 you'll be way outside CULVE when you see the runway.

No, with 800 foot ceiling you will be at 1120 when at CULVE, making it
hard to see the runway through the clouds.

-Robert

I love that question!

No........I don't have an instrument rating. What does my having or not
having an instrument rating have to do with your confusion about this
approach?

Hell, MXmania could read this correctly.

Karl
"B" wrote in message ...
Do you have an instrument rating?

Help me understand how DME permits you to descent to 680 "far before
CULVE."

karl gruber wrote:

Not with DME, you'll be at 680 far before CULVE.

Karl
"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
ups.com...

On Jul 23, 1:18 pm, "karl gruber" wrote:

Where are you digging up such erroneous thoughts?

With 800/3 you'll be way outside CULVE when you see the runway.

No, with 800 foot ceiling you will be at 1120 when at CULVE, making it
hard to see the runway through the clouds.

-Robert

In article ,
"karl gruber" wrote:

No........I don't have an instrument rating.

It shows.

rg

I hate to blow Karl's cover, but he flies a jet for the Microsoft
millionaire who just visited the space station for 25 million bucks. He and
I flew for the same FBO before most of you guys were born.

Bob Gardner


"Ron Garret" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"karl gruber" wrote:

No........I don't have an instrument rating.

It shows.

rg

In article ,
"Bob Gardner" wrote:

I hate to blow Karl's cover, but he flies a jet for the Microsoft
millionaire who just visited the space station for 25 million bucks. He and
I flew for the same FBO before most of you guys were born.

And yet he can look at the (relatively simple) KSMO VOR / GPS approach
chart and misread it to the point where he's confidently heaping crap on
anyone who disagrees with his very basic misreading of it. At least he
finally and graciously appologised for all that.

Seriously, though, can anyone look at the chart and really think it's
safe (let alone legal) to go much below 1120 immediately after BEVEY in
IMC? As I've said earlier in this thread, I've worked in the buildings
that represent the charted obstructions not far from the centerline of
that approach, and it scares the hell out of me that a supposedly
seasoned ATP can be so far off in his reading of that chart.

Hamish

I have never used NACO charts, ever.

From the NACO chart I downloaded, there are four identical asterisks. It is
very easy to read the chart as I did, as one of the asterisk points to
crossing at the lower altitude. Another poster read it that way as well.

The Jeppesen charts show no such ambiguity.

Best,
Karl



"Hamish Reid" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Bob Gardner" wrote:

I hate to blow Karl's cover, but he flies a jet for the Microsoft
millionaire who just visited the space station for 25 million bucks. He
and
I flew for the same FBO before most of you guys were born.

And yet he can look at the (relatively simple) KSMO VOR / GPS approach
chart and misread it to the point where he's confidently heaping crap on
anyone who disagrees with his very basic misreading of it. At least he
finally and graciously appologised for all that.

Seriously, though, can anyone look at the chart and really think it's
safe (let alone legal) to go much below 1120 immediately after BEVEY in
IMC? As I've said earlier in this thread, I've worked in the buildings
that represent the charted obstructions not far from the centerline of
that approach, and it scares the hell out of me that a supposedly
seasoned ATP can be so far off in his reading of that chart.

Hamish

"Bob Gardner" wrote:

I hate to blow Karl's cover, but he flies a jet for the Microsoft
millionaire who just visited the space station for 25 million bucks. He
and I flew for the same FBO before most of you guys were born.


Yes, but you do know there's been significant changes since the old A-O
ranges, don't you?

In article ,
"karl gruber" wrote:

I have never used NACO charts, ever.

So?

From the NACO chart I downloaded, there are four identical asterisks. It is
very easy to read the chart as I did, as one of the asterisk points to
crossing at the lower altitude.

No, it doesn't. It points to reduced minimums, which is NOT the same
thing.

Another poster read it that way as well.

That poster was wrong too.

The Jeppesen charts show no such ambiguity.

Neither does the NACO chart.

rg

karl gruber wrote:
I have never used NACO charts, ever.

From the NACO chart I downloaded, there are four identical asterisks. It is
very easy to read the chart as I did, as one of the asterisk points to
crossing at the lower altitude. Another poster read it that way as well.

The Jeppesen charts show no such ambiguity.

I agree, Karl. With the benefit of all this discussion and sitting
comfortably at my workstation, the chart is unambiguous. If I were
prepping the approach while trying to fly the airplane (which *does*
happen sometimes) I'm not sure I couldn't have been similarly misled. I
think NACO could find a better way to convey the correct information.

DB

In article ,
"Bob Gardner" wrote:

I hate to blow Karl's cover, but he flies a jet for the Microsoft
millionaire who just visited the space station for 25 million bucks.

So what? That he works for Charles Simonyi doesn't change the fact that
he is wrong.

(Interesting side note: back in the mid-90's I ran into Charles Simonyi
at a conference in Santa Barbara and ended up giving him a ride back to
the airport since we were both parked at the same FBO. Of course, he
was in his private Falcon jet and I was in a rented C182RG. As I was
preflighting I heard the Falcon's engines spooling up and down, but the
plane didn't move. After a while they shut the engines down, so I went
back into the FBO to see what was going on. Turned out they had a red
light on one of the engines and were grounded. Since he wasn't going
anywhere, Simonyi gave me a tour of the plane. It was the first time I
ever saw a glass cockpit. Sweet! But I couldn't help thinking as I
climbed out of SBA that I was going home while Simonyi, one of the
richest men in the world, was stuck at the airport like any ordinary
shmoe.)

rg