I just have to get it off my chest.

"Casey Tompkins" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 17:21:13 GMT, Dave wrote:

Clairbear wrote:

Gee 1227K for xnews I might have to remove it
and it reads yenc, speeds up access,rejoins multi part posts, and allows
me
to access all header on ng
You might be right I guess I'll just have to go back to the
inconvenience
of using OE to access the usenet.


I think that things should be as simple as possible.
There are quite a few people who don't know how to setup new programs,
like my 85 year old father, but he likes this newsgroup.
He worked for Curtis back in the 30's and 40's in their experimental
aircraft group in Buffalo.

I vote for keeping it as simple and direct as possible so everybody can
enjoy these great photos of beautiful and unique aircraft.
Just my two cents.

Um, Dave, just how hard is it for *anyone* to double-click on an
install program? Doesn't get much simpler than that.

Virtually every person I've ever seen complain about yEnc is an
Outlook Express user. That is, they use one of the worst pieces of
junk ever released by MicroSoft that contains an absurd number of
security holes. It is, I might add, just an email program with
newsgroup reading tacked on.

You might as well use a truck to pull a plow. It would work, but it
wouldn't be very effective.

This argument falls into the same category of people who complain that
they don't want to deal with those bloody VHS players, since there's
nothing wrong with their Betamax.

If you really want simple and direct, we could go back to text-only
usenet, accessed via command-line programs, transmitting cute
ASCII-art pics of airplanes. Better yet, go real old-school, and use
the US Post Office. Just photocopy those shots and physically mail
them to folks. It can't get much simpler than that, and -hey-
absolutely no software is involved!

Let's be honest: this argument has virtually always been driven by
Outlook Express users who refuse to part from their bedraggled
teddy-bear of a program. Why not 'fess up about it?

On the other hand, it depends on how the poster uploads their images.
If they do so by hand (which is possible via newsreader) the uploader
can configure the program not to use yEnc. I use Agent 1.91 (hate the
3.x, they trashed the interface) and I've disabled yEnc manually for
my uploads. If anyone wants direction on how to do that for Agent,
email me or ask here.

But if I have a large number of images, I need something like Power
Post v11b, and I can't disable the yEnc encoding. It's hard-wired into
the code. I personally would have no trouble in turning off yEnc, if
that option existed. Maybe if we all wrote the author - assert at
powerpost dot cjb dot net- he would release a new version?



Hi, Casey !

I have been avoiding this yEnc/OE thread but after reading your post I
thought you may perhaps be the one to answer my as-yet unanswered question:
What will your agent do that OE will not, except of course decode yEnc
without an add-on patch?

I have formed the opinion after reading these hate-OE threads over the years
that those who hate OE simply don't know how to use it.

What say you?

gdp

Agreed though I do not use OE I use Thunderbird and still YENC is a
source of trouble

Dont like being placed into a group just because I hate YENC


Hi, Casey !

I have been avoiding this yEnc/OE thread but after reading your post I
thought you may perhaps be the one to answer my as-yet unanswered question:
What will your agent do that OE will not, except of course decode yEnc
without an add-on patch?

I have formed the opinion after reading these hate-OE threads over the years
that those who hate OE simply don't know how to use it.

What say you?

gdp

Maple1 wrote:
Agreed though I do not use OE I use Thunderbird and still YENC is a
source of trouble

Dont like being placed into a group just because I hate YENC


Hi, Casey !

I have been avoiding this yEnc/OE thread but after reading your post I
thought you may perhaps be the one to answer my as-yet unanswered
question: What will your agent do that OE will not, except of course
decode yEnc without an add-on patch?

I have formed the opinion after reading these hate-OE threads over the
years that those who hate OE simply don't know how to use it.

What say you?

gdp





I use T-Bird also. Great program. I think in the future it will have a
add-on to decode YEnc, if not now. I just haven't looked at the add-ons
lately.
I was once anti YEnc until someone told me about XNews. Free and easy to
use. Seconds to open.
Let's face it, we don't open everything unless it perks our interest.
Let's stop this silly thread and press on.

JMHO,
JRW

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:54:44 GMT, Maple1 wrote:

Agreed though I do not use OE I use Thunderbird and still YENC is a
source of trouble

Dont like being placed into a group just because I hate YENC


Please excuse the repetition, but I want to be clear on this; the
Thunderbird reader doesn't understand yEnc while browsing newsgroups??

Color me shocked... I would have expected them to include that
functionality in a modern program.

On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:07:35 -0500, "Don Pyeatt"
wrote:

Hi, Casey !

I have been avoiding this yEnc/OE thread but after reading your post I
thought you may perhaps be the one to answer my as-yet unanswered question:
What will your agent do that OE will not, except of course decode yEnc
without an add-on patch?

I have formed the opinion after reading these hate-OE threads over the years
that those who hate OE simply don't know how to use it.

What say you?

Without going into exhaustive detail, Don, that's like asking what MS
Word can do, that Wordpad can't? You have the cart and the horse
backwards. Both Wordpad and OE are targeted to very specific and
narrow uses. OE is an email program with limited newsreading ability.
Similarly, Wordpad may act as an elemental word processor.

I can speak with some authority on this, as my first PC used CP/M, not
MS-DOS, and I remember the dreaded EDLIN, the only text editor
available to early versions of MS-DOS. It was a line-editor. That is,
one could edit text one line at a time. You had to type commands along
the lines of "edit line 3" and then you could perform primitive
editing similar to command-line editing until WinXP.

Then along (finally) comes WordPad, which is a freebie included with
the latest Windows. Considered as a basic word processor (compared to
the 80s stuff) it is excellent. WYSIWYG, different fonts on-screen,
in-place editing on-screen, italics, boldface, etc, etc. After Valdocs
that's exciting!

But... Compared to a real modern word processor -or even a powerful
text editor such as TextPad or EMACS, Wordpad is primitive.

To put it another way, OE to a modern newsreader as MS Paint is to
Adobe Photoshop.

I don't hate OE per se, as an email utility. I loathe it as an example
of how MicroSoft allowed it to become one of the world's worst
vulnerability magnet.

There are free programs which are head and shoulders above what MS
produces for email, newsgroups, and the web. I've mentioned Agent
already. The Mozilla Firefox brower and Mozilla Sunbird email client
are the best of the best. If you want to see what's going to be added
to the next edition of Internet Explorer, just check out what's
current (or old {g}) in Firefox and Sunbird. The Mozilla products are
more secure than equivalent MS products, more stable, more advanced,
and one helluva lot cheaper.

To get back to your original point, I know how to use OE; I just don't
see the point; any more than I see the point of using WordPad as a
word processor. (which reminds me: OpenOffice, anyone?) There are far
more powerful freeware applications out there. OE is comparatively
primitive, and a security nightmare. If I could rip it out by the
roots from WinXP, I would do so in a heartbeat.

I think my earlier analogy still holds: you can use a truck as a
tractor, but that doesn't make it a good idea. OE is not a newsgroup
reader.

I'll also repeat my earlier statment: much of the argument can be
avoided by posting via newgroup reader and not using yEnc. I have no
problem doing that, just to keep the peace. Alas, the best freeware
auto-poster is Power Post v11b, AKA Power Post v11b-yEnc. Are there
any yEnc-hating hackers out there who would be willing to (ahhh...)
"yEnc" that code out of the program to allow standard bulk posting?

Please excuse the pun.

"Casey Tompkins" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:07:35 -0500, "Don Pyeatt"
wrote:

Hi, Casey !

I have been avoiding this yEnc/OE thread but after reading your post I
thought you may perhaps be the one to answer my as-yet unanswered
question:
What will your agent do that OE will not, except of course decode yEnc
without an add-on patch?

I have formed the opinion after reading these hate-OE threads over the
years
that those who hate OE simply don't know how to use it.

What say you?

Without going into exhaustive detail, Don, that's like asking what MS
Word can do, that Wordpad can't? You have the cart and the horse
backwards. Both Wordpad and OE are targeted to very specific and
narrow uses. OE is an email program with limited newsreading ability.
Similarly, Wordpad may act as an elemental word processor.

I can speak with some authority on this, as my first PC used CP/M, not
MS-DOS, and I remember the dreaded EDLIN, the only text editor
available to early versions of MS-DOS. It was a line-editor. That is,
one could edit text one line at a time. You had to type commands along
the lines of "edit line 3" and then you could perform primitive
editing similar to command-line editing until WinXP.

Then along (finally) comes WordPad, which is a freebie included with
the latest Windows. Considered as a basic word processor (compared to
the 80s stuff) it is excellent. WYSIWYG, different fonts on-screen,
in-place editing on-screen, italics, boldface, etc, etc. After Valdocs
that's exciting!

But... Compared to a real modern word processor -or even a powerful
text editor such as TextPad or EMACS, Wordpad is primitive.

To put it another way, OE to a modern newsreader as MS Paint is to
Adobe Photoshop.

I don't hate OE per se, as an email utility. I loathe it as an example
of how MicroSoft allowed it to become one of the world's worst
vulnerability magnet.

There are free programs which are head and shoulders above what MS
produces for email, newsgroups, and the web. I've mentioned Agent
already. The Mozilla Firefox brower and Mozilla Sunbird email client
are the best of the best. If you want to see what's going to be added
to the next edition of Internet Explorer, just check out what's
current (or old {g}) in Firefox and Sunbird. The Mozilla products are
more secure than equivalent MS products, more stable, more advanced,
and one helluva lot cheaper.

To get back to your original point, I know how to use OE; I just don't
see the point; any more than I see the point of using WordPad as a
word processor. (which reminds me: OpenOffice, anyone?) There are far
more powerful freeware applications out there. OE is comparatively
primitive, and a security nightmare. If I could rip it out by the
roots from WinXP, I would do so in a heartbeat.

I think my earlier analogy still holds: you can use a truck as a
tractor, but that doesn't make it a good idea. OE is not a newsgroup
reader.

I'll also repeat my earlier statment: much of the argument can be
avoided by posting via newgroup reader and not using yEnc. I have no
problem doing that, just to keep the peace. Alas, the best freeware
auto-poster is Power Post v11b, AKA Power Post v11b-yEnc. Are there
any yEnc-hating hackers out there who would be willing to (ahhh...)
"yEnc" that code out of the program to allow standard bulk posting?

Please excuse the pun.


Thanks, Casey.

Unfortunately, after all the subjective comparisons you used, you have not
answered my basic question. To repeat:

Other than yEnc, "What will your agent do that OE will not?"

This former CP/M and DOS user just wants a straight answer.

Please be objective.

Don

"Don Pyeatt" wrote in message
...

"Casey Tompkins" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Jul 2007 16:07:35 -0500, "Don Pyeatt"
wrote:



Why don't you people start a NEW newsgroup "alt.binaries.pictures.yEnc is
better.No it isn't.Yes it is", then everyone can move over there and
continue to club this thread into the ground.

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:19:03 -0700, "Mike Henley"
wrote:

Why don't you people start a NEW newsgroup "alt.binaries.pictures.yEnc is
better.No it isn't.Yes it is", then everyone can move over there and
continue to club this thread into the ground.

Ok. I'm busted. I've seen this thread way too many times myself. but
the folks around here are (generally) just too darn civilized.
Besides, I have a prelidicton for pedanrty, and the argument that
adding yEnc functionality or upgrading to a true newsreader is not
supportable...

On the other hand, I am in no way a "yEnc fan" (despite belief to the
contrary).

On the gripping hand, I think there are valid ways to address this
challenge besides the bit bucket. I have already mentioned some of
these methods in earliers remarks.

"gnububba" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 05:32:43 -0500, "Don Pyeatt"


...snippage here, sorry...
Unfortunately, after all the subjective comparisons you used, you have not
answered my basic question. To repeat:

Other than yEnc, "What will your agent do that OE will not?"

This former CP/M and DOS user just wants a straight answer.

Please be objective.

Don

Hi Don,

This is for information only but here is a brief list of things I find
important every day which I believe OE won't do for me.

1. Automatically combine multiple part posts into a single line.

2. Allow more than one group to be open at a time.
(I can look through other groups while one is downloading.)

3. Allow a single post to be d/led 'right now' without having to stop
a d/l going on in another group. (Priority retrieval)

4. Allow Personalization of the toolbar with a choice of nearly any
function available in the reader.

5. Automatically add the filename to the Subject line of a post.

6. Permit changing how many headers to get on a one-time basis
without having to reset the default properties.

7. Allow different usage settings for_each individual group_rather
than a single set of options for all.

8. Correctly format quoted text without breaking it into spastic
little pieces and stringing it down an entire page. (I had to get
one dig in OK?)

Also some readers:
8. Exceed the options capability of OE by more than 10::1.

9. Exceed the filtering capability of OE by Light Years.

10. The nickel & dime conveniences are far too many to list.

Let me qualify. I used OE for over a year getting news and during that
time the list above seemed every bit as unimportant to me as it now
seems indispensable.

These threads are beyond weariness and will end only when OE is
repaired. Unfortunately all hope of that is now gone forever.
Microsoft ended development and it was officially killed last year.
Does the fact Microsoft itself has quit using it say anything?

I didn't want to take time learning another news reader and enjoyed
the groups using Outlook Express. I still thoroughly enjoy the groups
but using a program that is smart about what goes on in news groups
has saved me a lot of grief. I can spend what time there is available
looking through the groups rather than wondering what went wrong.

The most important part of this group are the people who have been
bringing pictures here day after day for years. Without them this news
reader is just as worthless as any other. They know who they are and
how they want to go about doing it.

Thank you,


And thank you for your objectivity ! I believe the question has been
answered succinctly, and with no references to VHS and Beta.

Thank you,

gdp

On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 04:47:39 -0500, "Don Pyeatt"
wrote:

And thank you for your objectivity ! I believe the question has been
answered succinctly, and with no references to VHS and Beta.

Thank you,


Well, sorry about that, sir! I was trying to provide a general
argument, but apparently that rubs feathers the wrong way around here.
You asked an honest question, and I tried to anwser it honestly and
objectively.

....Even if very few people use Betamax machines any more. Heh...

(ducking for cover)