I just have to get it off my chest.

Casey Tompkins wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 17:21:13 GMT, Dave wrote:

Clairbear wrote:

Gee 1227K for xnews I might have to remove it
and it reads yenc, speeds up access,rejoins multi part posts, and allows me
to access all header on ng
You might be right I guess I'll just have to go back to the inconvenience
of using OE to access the usenet.


I think that things should be as simple as possible.
There are quite a few people who don't know how to setup new programs,
like my 85 year old father, but he likes this newsgroup.
He worked for Curtis back in the 30's and 40's in their experimental
aircraft group in Buffalo.

I vote for keeping it as simple and direct as possible so everybody can
enjoy these great photos of beautiful and unique aircraft.
Just my two cents.

Um, Dave, just how hard is it for *anyone* to double-click on an
install program? Doesn't get much simpler than that.

Virtually every person I've ever seen complain about yEnc is an
Outlook Express user. That is, they use one of the worst pieces of
junk ever released by MicroSoft that contains an absurd number of
security holes. It is, I might add, just an email program with
newsgroup reading tacked on.

You might as well use a truck to pull a plow. It would work, but it
wouldn't be very effective.

This argument falls into the same category of people who complain that
they don't want to deal with those bloody VHS players, since there's
nothing wrong with their Betamax.

If you really want simple and direct, we could go back to text-only
usenet, accessed via command-line programs, transmitting cute
ASCII-art pics of airplanes. Better yet, go real old-school, and use
the US Post Office. Just photocopy those shots and physically mail
them to folks. It can't get much simpler than that, and -hey-
absolutely no software is involved!

Let's be honest: this argument has virtually always been driven by
Outlook Express users who refuse to part from their bedraggled
teddy-bear of a program. Why not 'fess up about it?

On the other hand, it depends on how the poster uploads their images.
If they do so by hand (which is possible via newsreader) the uploader
can configure the program not to use yEnc. I use Agent 1.91 (hate the
3.x, they trashed the interface) and I've disabled yEnc manually for
my uploads. If anyone wants direction on how to do that for Agent,
email me or ask here.

But if I have a large number of images, I need something like Power
Post v11b, and I can't disable the yEnc encoding. It's hard-wired into
the code. I personally would have no trouble in turning off yEnc, if
that option existed. Maybe if we all wrote the author - assert at
powerpost dot cjb dot net- he would release a new version?


I agree and a FREE newsreader is easy to install. I use XNews and it
does it all.
This back and forth over YEnc is stupid. If you can't decode it, pass on
it. Simple.
JRW

"JRW" wrote in message
...
Casey Tompkins wrote:
On Sun, 08 Jul 2007 17:21:13 GMT, Dave wrote:

Clairbear wrote:

Gee 1227K for xnews I might have to remove it
and it reads yenc, speeds up access,rejoins multi part posts, and
allows me
to access all header on ng
You might be right I guess I'll just have to go back to the
inconvenience
of using OE to access the usenet.


I think that things should be as simple as possible.
There are quite a few people who don't know how to setup new programs,
like my 85 year old father, but he likes this newsgroup.
He worked for Curtis back in the 30's and 40's in their experimental
aircraft group in Buffalo.

I vote for keeping it as simple and direct as possible so everybody can
enjoy these great photos of beautiful and unique aircraft.
Just my two cents.

Um, Dave, just how hard is it for *anyone* to double-click on an
install program? Doesn't get much simpler than that.

Virtually every person I've ever seen complain about yEnc is an
Outlook Express user. That is, they use one of the worst pieces of
junk ever released by MicroSoft that contains an absurd number of
security holes. It is, I might add, just an email program with
newsgroup reading tacked on.

You might as well use a truck to pull a plow. It would work, but it
wouldn't be very effective.

This argument falls into the same category of people who complain that
they don't want to deal with those bloody VHS players, since there's
nothing wrong with their Betamax.

If you really want simple and direct, we could go back to text-only
usenet, accessed via command-line programs, transmitting cute
ASCII-art pics of airplanes. Better yet, go real old-school, and use
the US Post Office. Just photocopy those shots and physically mail
them to folks. It can't get much simpler than that, and -hey-
absolutely no software is involved!

Let's be honest: this argument has virtually always been driven by
Outlook Express users who refuse to part from their bedraggled
teddy-bear of a program. Why not 'fess up about it?

On the other hand, it depends on how the poster uploads their images.
If they do so by hand (which is possible via newsreader) the uploader
can configure the program not to use yEnc. I use Agent 1.91 (hate the
3.x, they trashed the interface) and I've disabled yEnc manually for
my uploads. If anyone wants direction on how to do that for Agent,
email me or ask here.

But if I have a large number of images, I need something like Power
Post v11b, and I can't disable the yEnc encoding. It's hard-wired into
the code. I personally would have no trouble in turning off yEnc, if
that option existed. Maybe if we all wrote the author - assert at
powerpost dot cjb dot net- he would release a new version?


I agree and a FREE newsreader is easy to install. I use XNews and it
does it all.
This back and forth over YEnc is stupid. If you can't decode it, pass on
it. Simple.
JRW

Not so fast....this is not a yEnc thread. I just want someone to answer my
question about news and email clients.

Why is OE inferior to other clients?

It is beginning to appear that no one can answer it.

gdp

Don Pyeatt wrote:
Not so fast....this is not a yEnc thread. I just want someone to
answer my question about news and email clients.

Why is OE inferior to other clients?

It is beginning to appear that no one can answer it.

gdp



Poking my head above the trench for the first time on this, I _prefer_ OE.


I've been using it for years, (since '91 or '92) I've also tried other
clients such as Free Agent, Thunderbird and XNews.


Quite frankly, none of them made my day sufficiently easier, to make it
worth the trouble of learning a new program.


Thunderbird was pretty - but the message folder was over twice the size of
OE's, I have about a Gb of stored messages with OE and about 2.4Gb with
Thunderbird.


Some of these other newsreaders have all the features of OE, but do their
'thing' slightly differently. One of them (I can't remember which)
was difficult or impossible to tag and download messages selectively (I'd
have to download every message on the group, first).



Quite frankly, I still download and install the very occasional new version
of the above list, but nothing I've seen convinces ME that it's worth the
switch.



If the others were as good as some people seem to attest, then the whole
planet would have taken on these wonderful, free packages - but that hasn't
happened.


Why is that ? Some of us are boring old farts, that are resistant
to change - a lot of us have seen this all before, this isn't our first
time around the block.



yEnc ? Use it if you want, I personally don't give a crap.
My OE filters out most of it, so it doesn't worry me.


Some of the yEnc files that do slip past the filter (because they're not
labelled in the header) seem to be overly large pictures anyway, HUGE damn
files that should have been resized properly, no matter what encoding method
was used. The only justification offered was that "they would be
even larger in Mime or UUencode"


There are still people on dial-up - their opinion matters. As
technology moves on, more of these people are going over to broadband,
making the one advantage that the yEnc enclave hold very dear, increasingly
redundant. Bandwidth gets faster and cheaper every year - it's been
doing that since my first 1200bps modem and I don't see that trend changing.


My personal opinion, for those who are still reading this far ..... is
that yEnc is a solution in search of a problem and not enough of one for me
to migrate all of my mail and news activity over to a new platform - it's
not always as easy or as important as some people think.



But of course YMMV.


--

Cheers

Dave Kearton

My old machine expiried, and I was eager to to try Vista.
Vista comes with an email/newsreader program - Windows
Mail. I am not a fan of Windows Mail as a newsreader.
Within 20 minutes, I was at the Microsoft Download center
trying to get OE, but OE is apparently not compatable with Vista.
I find the Windows Mail newsreader cumbersome, awkward,
and needlessly time consuming compared to OE.
I am not usually a Microsoft basher, but IMO, they missed
the mark with this program.
Vista has some very nice features, but I would return to
XP and OE in a millisecond.

Just my opinion and POV as a usenet user.

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:03:00 +0930, "Dave Kearton"
wrote:

Don Pyeatt wrote:
If the others were as good as some people seem to attest, then the whole
planet would have taken on these wonderful, free packages - but that hasn't
happened.

Let us reformulate: If the health bonuses were as good as some people
seem to attest, then the whole planet would have stopped smoking by
now - but that hasn't happened.

Catch my drift?

I'm trying to get into a "which is better" argument per se, but OE is
not, never has been, and never will be a full-blown newsreader, any
more than WordPad is a true word processor. My orientation is more
towards appropriate/legitimate arguments, and how to solve the
problem.

If, however, your needs are served by that application, knock yourself
out. Just please don't try to tell me it's a newreader.

Also, the approach of "argument by simplicity" falls apart upon
examination, especially if one side gets to define simplicity as "what
I'm used to." Heck, I was used to DesqView interrupt-driven
multi-tasking under MS-DOS long before Win95 came along. Yet I was
finally dragged -kicking and screaming- into Windows-world.

You want simplicity? Fine, let's go back to TTY terminals and
analog-coupled 300bps modems. THAT'S simple! Or text-only usenet
readers/browsers like LYNX. THAT'S simple.

I think I've outlined the two major challenges for binaries groups:
individual posting, and bulk posting. I may be wrong (not having
exhaustively tested every newsreader on the market) but they should
have an option to disable yEnc encoding for uploads. I've already done
that with Agent. That's step one. The other challenge is finding a
bulk uploader as powerful and as inexpensive as Power Post v11b
(yEnc). If there were a non-yEnc version available, I would switch to
that in a heartbeat, just to keep the peace.

Another analogy, possibly on topic, just occured to me. Supposedly
Ernst Udet checked out the new Bf-109 Willy Messerchmidt was
developing, then told the designer that once he added a second wing
and lost the canopy he would have a great fighter.

I would venture to suggest that, perhaps, the non-yEncers just don't
get the whole "glass over the head" thing...

Please note that I never have, and never will make claims as to yEnc's
"superiority." It's there, and we have to deal with it. I did with a
simple point upgrade to Agent. As Don originally said, YMMV.

And the yEnc thumpers dont get the We dont want it, dont need it thing
either..... The yEnc'ers force their pages and pages of unreadable code
down our throats even tho time and time again its been said that its not
welcome here. Since you seem to be unable to answer Dons Question with a
straight answer and just keep throwing
analogy after analogy around....I come to your house and you dont smoke and
Im a smoker, out of common courtesy, Im not gonna smoke in your house......
but that comes from those having conciences and able to be considerate of
others...... Nuff said, if you want to post yEnc fine, your just wasting
bandwidth to me and shall join the other yEncers in the kill file.

"Casey Tompkins" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:03:00 +0930, "Dave Kearton"
wrote:

Don Pyeatt wrote:
If the others were as good as some people seem to attest, then the whole
planet would have taken on these wonderful, free packages - but that
hasn't
happened.

Let us reformulate: If the health bonuses were as good as some people
seem to attest, then the whole planet would have stopped smoking by
now - but that hasn't happened.

Catch my drift?

I'm trying to get into a "which is better" argument per se, but OE is
not, never has been, and never will be a full-blown newsreader, any
more than WordPad is a true word processor. My orientation is more
towards appropriate/legitimate arguments, and how to solve the
problem.

If, however, your needs are served by that application, knock yourself
out. Just please don't try to tell me it's a newreader.

Also, the approach of "argument by simplicity" falls apart upon
examination, especially if one side gets to define simplicity as "what
I'm used to." Heck, I was used to DesqView interrupt-driven
multi-tasking under MS-DOS long before Win95 came along. Yet I was
finally dragged -kicking and screaming- into Windows-world.

You want simplicity? Fine, let's go back to TTY terminals and
analog-coupled 300bps modems. THAT'S simple! Or text-only usenet
readers/browsers like LYNX. THAT'S simple.

I think I've outlined the two major challenges for binaries groups:
individual posting, and bulk posting. I may be wrong (not having
exhaustively tested every newsreader on the market) but they should
have an option to disable yEnc encoding for uploads. I've already done
that with Agent. That's step one. The other challenge is finding a
bulk uploader as powerful and as inexpensive as Power Post v11b
(yEnc). If there were a non-yEnc version available, I would switch to
that in a heartbeat, just to keep the peace.

Another analogy, possibly on topic, just occured to me. Supposedly
Ernst Udet checked out the new Bf-109 Willy Messerchmidt was
developing, then told the designer that once he added a second wing
and lost the canopy he would have a great fighter.

I would venture to suggest that, perhaps, the non-yEncers just don't
get the whole "glass over the head" thing...

Please note that I never have, and never will make claims as to yEnc's
"superiority." It's there, and we have to deal with it. I did with a
simple point upgrade to Agent. As Don originally said, YMMV.

On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 05:26:40 GMT, "Dallas"
wrote:

And the yEnc thumpers dont get the We dont want it, dont need it thing
either..... The yEnc'ers force their pages and pages of unreadable code
down our throats even tho time and time again its been said that its not
welcome here. Since you seem to be unable to answer Dons Question with a
straight answer and just keep throwing
analogy after analogy around....I come to your house and you dont smoke and
Im a smoker, out of common courtesy, Im not gonna smoke in your house......
but that comes from those having conciences and able to be considerate of
others...... Nuff said, if you want to post yEnc fine, your just wasting
bandwidth to me and shall join the other yEncers in the kill file.

Dallas, if you have a problem with argument by analogy, I can't help
you. It's a legitmate method of discussion, and sometimes may
illustrate a point more effectively than pure prose.

I have, in fact, answered Don's question, which was about OE, not
yEnc, if you were paying attention...

Also, IF you were paying attention, I have already (upon more than one
occasion) made suggestions on how posters may accomodate
non-yEnc-compliant readers, but you are apparently more interested in
shoving me into some pre-concieved category in your mind, than reading
what I have to say.

Sorry.

I dont have any problem with argument by analogy, but what was asked for was
specifics not generalities....... You provided none.... And you still miss
my point, the group has had a long..............long time standing policy on
yEnc.......Much like non smokers prolly have in their homes about
smoking........and that is that yEnc isnt welcome here.... It never has
been, and prolly never will be........ Point being is that those posting
in yEnc are being much like the smoker entering the nonsmokers house and
lighting up................
Last thing Ill say bout it as this horse is officially deader then
hell.............

"Casey Tompkins" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 05:26:40 GMT, "Dallas"
wrote:

And the yEnc thumpers dont get the We dont want it, dont need it thing
either..... The yEnc'ers force their pages and pages of unreadable code
down our throats even tho time and time again its been said that its not
welcome here. Since you seem to be unable to answer Dons Question with a
straight answer and just keep throwing
analogy after analogy around....I come to your house and you dont smoke
and
Im a smoker, out of common courtesy, Im not gonna smoke in your
house......
but that comes from those having conciences and able to be considerate of
others...... Nuff said, if you want to post yEnc fine, your just wasting
bandwidth to me and shall join the other yEncers in the kill file.

Dallas, if you have a problem with argument by analogy, I can't help
you. It's a legitmate method of discussion, and sometimes may
illustrate a point more effectively than pure prose.

I have, in fact, answered Don's question, which was about OE, not
yEnc, if you were paying attention...

Also, IF you were paying attention, I have already (upon more than one
occasion) made suggestions on how posters may accomodate
non-yEnc-compliant readers, but you are apparently more interested in
shoving me into some pre-concieved category in your mind, than reading
what I have to say.

Sorry.

"Casey Tompkins" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:03:00 +0930, "Dave Kearton"
wrote:

Don Pyeatt wrote:
If the others were as good as some people seem to attest, then the whole
planet would have taken on these wonderful, free packages - but that
hasn't
happened.

Let us reformulate: If the health bonuses were as good as some people
seem to attest, then the whole planet would have stopped smoking by
now - but that hasn't happened.

Catch my drift?

I'm trying to get into a "which is better" argument per se, but OE is
not, never has been, and never will be a full-blown newsreader, any
more than WordPad is a true word processor. My orientation is more
towards appropriate/legitimate arguments, and how to solve the
problem.

If, however, your needs are served by that application, knock yourself
out. Just please don't try to tell me it's a newreader.

Also, the approach of "argument by simplicity" falls apart upon
examination, especially if one side gets to define simplicity as "what
I'm used to." Heck, I was used to DesqView interrupt-driven
multi-tasking under MS-DOS long before Win95 came along. Yet I was
finally dragged -kicking and screaming- into Windows-world.

You want simplicity? Fine, let's go back to TTY terminals and
analog-coupled 300bps modems. THAT'S simple! Or text-only usenet
readers/browsers like LYNX. THAT'S simple.

I think I've outlined the two major challenges for binaries groups:
individual posting, and bulk posting. I may be wrong (not having
exhaustively tested every newsreader on the market) but they should
have an option to disable yEnc encoding for uploads. I've already done
that with Agent. That's step one. The other challenge is finding a
bulk uploader as powerful and as inexpensive as Power Post v11b
(yEnc). If there were a non-yEnc version available, I would switch to
that in a heartbeat, just to keep the peace.

Another analogy, possibly on topic, just occured to me. Supposedly
Ernst Udet checked out the new Bf-109 Willy Messerchmidt was
developing, then told the designer that once he added a second wing
and lost the canopy he would have a great fighter.

I would venture to suggest that, perhaps, the non-yEncers just don't
get the whole "glass over the head" thing...

Please note that I never have, and never will make claims as to yEnc's
"superiority." It's there, and we have to deal with it. I did with a
simple point upgrade to Agent. As Don originally said, YMMV.


No, I did not.

What I said was, "Other than yEnc, what will your agent do that OE will
not?"

gdp

Don Pyeatt wrote:
"Casey Tompkins" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:03:00 +0930, "Dave Kearton"
wrote:

Don Pyeatt wrote:
If the others were as good as some people seem to attest, then
the whole planet would have taken on these wonderful, free
packages - but that hasn't
happened.

Let us reformulate: If the health bonuses were as good as some
people seem to attest, then the whole planet would have stopped
smoking by now - but that hasn't happened.

Catch my drift?

I'm trying to get into a "which is better" argument per se, but OE
is not, never has been, and never will be a full-blown newsreader,
any more than WordPad is a true word processor. My orientation is
more towards appropriate/legitimate arguments, and how to solve the
problem.

If, however, your needs are served by that application, knock
yourself out. Just please don't try to tell me it's a newreader.

Also, the approach of "argument by simplicity" falls apart upon
examination, especially if one side gets to define simplicity as
"what I'm used to." Heck, I was used to DesqView interrupt-driven
multi-tasking under MS-DOS long before Win95 came along. Yet I was
finally dragged -kicking and screaming- into Windows-world.

You want simplicity? Fine, let's go back to TTY terminals and
analog-coupled 300bps modems. THAT'S simple! Or text-only usenet
readers/browsers like LYNX. THAT'S simple.

I think I've outlined the two major challenges for binaries groups:
individual posting, and bulk posting. I may be wrong (not having
exhaustively tested every newsreader on the market) but they should
have an option to disable yEnc encoding for uploads. I've already
done that with Agent. That's step one. The other challenge is
finding a bulk uploader as powerful and as inexpensive as Power
Post v11b (yEnc). If there were a non-yEnc version available, I
would switch to that in a heartbeat, just to keep the peace.

Another analogy, possibly on topic, just occured to me. Supposedly
Ernst Udet checked out the new Bf-109 Willy Messerchmidt was
developing, then told the designer that once he added a second wing
and lost the canopy he would have a great fighter.

I would venture to suggest that, perhaps, the non-yEncers just don't
get the whole "glass over the head" thing...

Please note that I never have, and never will make claims as to
yEnc's "superiority." It's there, and we have to deal with it. I
did with a simple point upgrade to Agent. As Don originally said,
YMMV.


No, I did not.

What I said was, "Other than yEnc, what will your agent do that OE
will not?"

gdp



His newsreader is causing problems with attributions.



--

Cheers

Dave Kearton