Malaysian MiG-29s got trounced by RN Sea Harrier F/A2s in Exercise Flying Fish

"Ian Craig" wrote in
:

So at a rough guess, you don't believe me? Well thats your choice,
but when you consider the air mass displacement the buc had at low
level, anybody trying to get in behind it was going to end up in
trouble, as I previously mentioned. This was in the days before a
true look down shoot down missile existed, and anything that did try
to lock on, usually ended up (or would have if they were real missiles
- Red Flag) getting lost in ground return - the point I was making.

"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
...


Would this be the same Buc that carried a full load at 250ft (or
below)
that
the F16s and F15s were BANNED (yes you did read that right) from
fighting
in
the weeds due to the severe performance advantage enjoyed by the
Buc. Not sure if its true, but I've heard that at least one f16(?)
tried to fight
in
the weeds, and ended up becoming a weed?

What utter Bullsh**. The Buc would not last 5 minutes in the same
sky with an F -15 or an F-16. It was, repeat was, a fine a/c thirty
years ago, now it is a museum piece.

Al Minyard


Yeah, I don't believe you. What you quote is a 'book legend.' A
practice almost exclusively enjoyed by the British.
Whatever happened to British understatement? Instead its given way to
British Hyperbole: seemingly impossible feats of daring do accomplished
only by Brits in their obsolete, funny looking airplanes.

I'm getting tired...
Can you tell me a good fairy tale? Why don't you tell me the story about
the Buc that hooked a tumbleweed on its pitot tube.
I love that one!

Your Pal,
Chuck

Nope - never heard that one. Care to enlighten me?

I have heard about the USAF fitter (don't know what the americans call
them?) who did pull-ups on a pitot probe and bent it. Rather than fix it he
bent the rest of the flights? Heard that one - I'm sure I could find it and
read it to you some other time??

"Chuck Johnson" wrote in message
. 165.241...
"Ian Craig" wrote in
:

So at a rough guess, you don't believe me? Well thats your choice,
but when you consider the air mass displacement the buc had at low
level, anybody trying to get in behind it was going to end up in
trouble, as I previously mentioned. This was in the days before a
true look down shoot down missile existed, and anything that did try
to lock on, usually ended up (or would have if they were real missiles
- Red Flag) getting lost in ground return - the point I was making.

"Alan Minyard" wrote in message
...


Would this be the same Buc that carried a full load at 250ft (or
below)
that
the F16s and F15s were BANNED (yes you did read that right) from
fighting
in
the weeds due to the severe performance advantage enjoyed by the
Buc. Not sure if its true, but I've heard that at least one f16(?)
tried to fight
in
the weeds, and ended up becoming a weed?

What utter Bullsh**. The Buc would not last 5 minutes in the same
sky with an F -15 or an F-16. It was, repeat was, a fine a/c thirty
years ago, now it is a museum piece.

Al Minyard


Yeah, I don't believe you. What you quote is a 'book legend.' A
practice almost exclusively enjoyed by the British.
Whatever happened to British understatement? Instead its given way to
British Hyperbole: seemingly impossible feats of daring do accomplished
only by Brits in their obsolete, funny looking airplanes.

I'm getting tired...
Can you tell me a good fairy tale? Why don't you tell me the story about
the Buc that hooked a tumbleweed on its pitot tube.
I love that one!

Your Pal,
Chuck

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:47:38 +0100, "Ian Craig"
wrote:

Nope - never heard that one. Care to enlighten me?

I have heard about the USAF fitter (don't know what the americans call
them?) who did pull-ups on a pitot probe and bent it. Rather than fix it he
bent the rest of the flights? Heard that one - I'm sure I could find it and
read it to you some other time??

That was a Greek guy guarding two transient aircraft, not an American.
It was reported in Flight International.

Mary
--
Mary Shafer
"There are only two types of aircraft--fighters and targets"
Major Doyle "Wahoo" Nicholson, USMC

"Mary Shafer" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:47:38 +0100, "Ian Craig"
wrote:

Nope - never heard that one. Care to enlighten me?

I have heard about the USAF fitter (don't know what the americans call
them?) who did pull-ups on a pitot probe and bent it. Rather than fix it
he
bent the rest of the flights? Heard that one - I'm sure I could find it
and
read it to you some other time??

That was a Greek guy guarding two transient aircraft, not an American.
It was reported in Flight International.

Indeed, it was a Greek guard who did this on one of four Mirage F.1EQ
underway from France to Iraq, in April 1981. After noticing he did something
wrong, he bent the pitot probes on the other three aircraft too... The
French had to fly-in a team of technicians with spare parts to solve the
problem.... ;-)))

Tom Cooper
Co-Author:
Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988:
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php
and,
Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat:
http://www.osprey-publishing.co.uk/t...hp/title=S6585

"Tom Cooper" wrote in
:

"Mary Shafer" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:47:38 +0100, "Ian Craig"
wrote:

Nope - never heard that one. Care to enlighten me?

I have heard about the USAF fitter (don't know what the americans
call them?) who did pull-ups on a pitot probe and bent it. Rather
than fix it
he
bent the rest of the flights? Heard that one - I'm sure I could
find it
and
read it to you some other time??

That was a Greek guy guarding two transient aircraft, not an
American. It was reported in Flight International.

Indeed, it was a Greek guard who did this on one of four Mirage F.1EQ
underway from France to Iraq, in April 1981. After noticing he did
something wrong, he bent the pitot probes on the other three aircraft
too... The French had to fly-in a team of technicians with spare parts
to solve the problem.... ;-)))

Tom Cooper
Co-Author:
Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988:
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php
and,
Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat:
http://www.osprey-publishing.co.uk/t...hp/title=S6585



More British (penis) envy of their French neighbors. How tiresome...
and yet fun!

Not that I love the French, but I love the unrestrained never ending
British jealousy directed at the evidently technically superior French
(Planes, Trains and Automobiles--oops! I forgot ships too (Queen Mary
II)!).

As for the Brits, they do degrade their neighbors in remarkably good
taste. Jolly Good!

On a military note, what's the deal with the MoD considering 'drastic
reductions' in the Eurofighter orders?

"Chuck Johnson" wrote in message
. 165.241...
"Tom Cooper" wrote in
:

More British (penis) envy of their French neighbors. How tiresome...
and yet fun!

Not that I love the French, but I love the unrestrained never ending
British jealousy directed at the evidently technically superior French
(Planes, Trains and Automobiles--oops! I forgot ships too (Queen Mary
II)!).

As for the Brits, they do degrade their neighbors in remarkably good
taste. Jolly Good!

On a military note, what's the deal with the MoD considering 'drastic
reductions' in the Eurofighter orders?

Chuck,
if this was sent to my adress, let me tell you, first of all, I'm not
British: I'm a pretty weird mix with a WASP, German and even Slavic
backgrounds. In short: a product of a familiy with 700 years of
military-service tradition.

If you want to bash me, call me a "prototype K.u.K. bourgeois", no problem:
just not "British". ;-)))

As second: that with the bent pitot tubes simply happened: that is a fact.
And, it was done by a Greek guard to a French aircraft. So, sorry: not my
fault.

Re. your military note: everybody is talking about "drastic cuts" of the
EF-2000's production run already since years. Sometimes they do this, many
times not. Germany already threatened to get out of the project completely,
two or so years back....

Tom Cooper
Co-Author:
Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988:
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php
and,
Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat:
http://www.osprey-publishing.co.uk/t...hp/title=S6585

The deal with the MoD 'considering drastic cuts' - probably the same thing
as the DoD doing exactly the same thing to F(should I add the /A?)-22.
Politics......


"Chuck Johnson" wrote in message
. 165.241...
"Tom Cooper" wrote in
:

"Mary Shafer" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:47:38 +0100, "Ian Craig"
wrote:

Nope - never heard that one. Care to enlighten me?

I have heard about the USAF fitter (don't know what the americans
call them?) who did pull-ups on a pitot probe and bent it. Rather
than fix it
he
bent the rest of the flights? Heard that one - I'm sure I could
find it
and
read it to you some other time??

That was a Greek guy guarding two transient aircraft, not an
American. It was reported in Flight International.

Indeed, it was a Greek guard who did this on one of four Mirage F.1EQ
underway from France to Iraq, in April 1981. After noticing he did
something wrong, he bent the pitot probes on the other three aircraft
too... The French had to fly-in a team of technicians with spare parts
to solve the problem.... ;-)))

Tom Cooper
Co-Author:
Iran-Iraq War in the Air, 1980-1988:
http://www.acig.org/pg1/content.php
and,
Iranian F-4 Phantom II Units in Combat:
http://www.osprey-publishing.co.uk/t...hp/title=S6585



More British (penis) envy of their French neighbors. How tiresome...
and yet fun!

Not that I love the French, but I love the unrestrained never ending
British jealousy directed at the evidently technically superior French
(Planes, Trains and Automobiles--oops! I forgot ships too (Queen Mary
II)!).

As for the Brits, they do degrade their neighbors in remarkably good
taste. Jolly Good!

On a military note, what's the deal with the MoD considering 'drastic
reductions' in the Eurofighter orders?