Friday 072707 in Oshkosh Pt 1 - the Raptor [01/30] - "F22 lifting off 18 after very short takeoff roll.jpg" yEnc (0/1)

On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:06:45 -0400, "Andrew-S"
I-Still-Hate-Spammers@Sorry-I had-to-leave-for-bit.com wrote:

Dave,
Did you read what I said before??? Where I described my system, and what my
thoughts are about yEnc? Or why for example I prefer OE? Better still why I
support the simpler non yEnc environment? There again is just possible in
your infinite arrogance that you missed something? Such as the fact that
even though I dislike yEnc intensely, and don't see the need for it, that I
have been yEnc capable for SEVERAL YEARS NOW!!! Or other concerns
such as that THE VERY ARGUMENT IS HURTING the newsgroup? Or that my biggest
reason for supporting the NON-yEnc argument is that this NG group is aimed
at amateurs,
many of whom are blissfully ignorant of yEnc and either lack the tools or
the skills
to install yEnc reading abilities. Minor details that I have stated over
and over again,
that you and the blindly pro yEnc crowd refuse to hear. Isn't it funny how
none
of the pro shooters in this NG post in yEnc. I wonder why that is???


Golly Gee Whiz somehow it looks as though your really sophisticated readers
missed
something!! or it could it have been the users of these readers that are
missing something?
I know it was all the plane noise in the background. By the way when was
the last time
did a photo shoot? or for that matter when was the last time you posted a
top rate image
of your own? Hmmm I didn't think so..


In the meantime my narrow minded friend I have two words for you and the
letter of the
first word starts with an "F" it is then followed the word OFF!!!

Andrew

Andrew, it matters not to me whether you like or dislike yenc, whether
you can or can not use it to down load pics. The question is, how is
it hurting this ng?

The only "hurt" I see is people who complain and whine because someone
is posting in yenc. What the hell kind of attitude is that? It's
there to be looked at or ignored. It need not be a source of whining.
Open it, ignore it. It is that simply. Why must you whine about it.
You're a spoiled little child talking like that.

And to say eff off to me, well, I ain't goin' anyplace, kid. I'm here
to stay, downing both yenc and non-yenc pictures, both non-pro and
pro. (BTW, if you have down loaded any of Plane's pictures, you will
see that he is a very good photographer. But, how could you possibly
know that unless you down load his yenc files.) d;o)

I have only posted a couple of pictures on this ng - some MiGs I
photographed in Petropavlosk, Kamchatka, Russia while on a fly fishing
exposition. You make it sound like I have to have a PhD in graphic
arts to post anything. I am a lurker, mainly, enjoying every kind of
format posted here. You should try it, kid.

As far as telling you to eff off, that ain't my style, kid. It serves
no purpose to use vulgarities on the internet. Now, if you told that
to me face to face, uhhh, things might be a little different,
dontchaknow. d;o)

Dave
(Who is *positive* that the kid ain't gettin' the message.)

You have a PhD and your point is??? Hell 2/3rds of the population in
Washington DC metro area have degrees. Even more impressive is that I think
it is something like only 1 in 6 is actually the degree in the field for
which they where trained. As for your specific graphics training? I work in
a camera shop and I have at least 3 or 4 people a day tell me they either a
pro or they have this or that degree in either graphics or photography. The
more professional ones come in asking for advice or knowing what they want,
it is only later on when they pull out a Black Amex Titanium (as in a real
titanium not plastic card) with their company name on it that you realize
what they are.

Outside of that though let me make sure I understand the time line here.
You direct unsupported statements about getting a yEnc decoder to myself...
Without ever reading my postings regarding the subject and I respond in
anger... Hmm did I miss something there with my lowly OE???

As for being a kid, age wise I am 43 so how that compares against you I am
not sure.. On the other hand I have been in and out of this NG for about 10
years or so, often as an active poster and just as many times as a lurker.
Now then regarding your time in the group, how long did you say you have
been here? Speaking of which, when did I suggest you or anybody else leave
the group? Check again and make sure that you don't have me confused with
someone else.

As for ignoring or not ignoring things... I rather thought that is what I
was saying to Bill when I mentioned the other interesting places to get our
Aviation Photo Fixes... A comment though not private, that was directed
towards Bill.

So my next and most obvious question is how much further do you want this to
go? Do we meet somewhere in a ring? or perhaps something more interesting
like dueling pistols?

Okay beyond the bad jokes...
Arguable the bravest (or perhaps dumbest) thing to do in any sort of battle
is to stand up, put down your weapon first and say "I am not going to
fight". Not because you or I or indeed anyone else is a coward, but
because you see a greater danger by continuing the fight. Which is where
I am at right now with our war of words and the NGs current yEnc debates.
The clearest example of this is what has just transpired between us!!! You
didn't read my prior postings? You made a comment that I took for being
snide, and I responded by escalating it yet again...

As for the damage to the group...
I am referring to the constant bickering that erupts every single time
anyone makes a comment regarding yEnc. It doesn't matter whether it be a
pro or anti yEnc comments, whether it be in anger as is currently happening
with OUR "you said I said" war of words. Or making a simple comments,
either as peace overtures, or an inflammatory tag line to a posting. The
name or process or whatever you choose to call yEnc is at this moment in
time is a hot button word. People ON BOTH SIDES bar their teeth and start
barking the moment it is even breathed. Hell look what happens when people
suggest ignoring it!!! The very word yEnc is like mentioning Bomb half way
into round the world flight on an airliner. The very fact that you where
talking about a roach bomb your neighbors had to use in their house is
irrelevant. The only word that anyone heard was "Bomb" and everyone freaks
out. Say yEnc in this NG and you get the cyber equivalent... In the
meantime more and more people are walking away from the group because of
this war of words.

Until very recently I was prepared to lay the blame on a handful of
individuals for starting it, HOWEVER it no longer really matters anymore who
started it, or even why it started. Because if ANY ONE including myself and
you, has made a single or caustic or snide remark on the subject we are as
guilty as any of those who actaully did start it. This includes BOTH ANTI
AND PRO yEnc supporters... Whether you love yEnc, or hate yEnc at this
point in time it doesn't matter; yEnc should be considered a forbidden
subject in any form. Or at least until the temperature cools down quite a
bit.

To bring it back to our exchange...
Dave believe me when I say this you are not "showing me", and I am not
running away from our exchange. If you knew me as a person you would
quickly realize that I may commit a 1000 sins, but cowardice isn't one of
them. On the other hand I am simply stating that I have no wish to continue
a war of words that I see as detrimental to the group. So if you continue
it, that is your choice, but it will be a very lonely war of words.

Andrew




"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:06:45 -0400, "Andrew-S"
I-Still-Hate-Spammers@Sorry-I had-to-leave-for-bit.com wrote:

Dave,
Did you read what I said before??? Where I described my system, and what
my
thoughts are about yEnc? Or why for example I prefer OE? Better still why
I
support the simpler non yEnc environment? There again is just possible in
your infinite arrogance that you missed something? Such as the fact that
even though I dislike yEnc intensely, and don't see the need for it, that
I
have been yEnc capable for SEVERAL YEARS NOW!!! Or other concerns
such as that THE VERY ARGUMENT IS HURTING the newsgroup? Or that my
biggest
reason for supporting the NON-yEnc argument is that this NG group is aimed
at amateurs,
many of whom are blissfully ignorant of yEnc and either lack the tools or
the skills
to install yEnc reading abilities. Minor details that I have stated over
and over again,
that you and the blindly pro yEnc crowd refuse to hear. Isn't it funny
how
none
of the pro shooters in this NG post in yEnc. I wonder why that is???


Golly Gee Whiz somehow it looks as though your really sophisticated
readers
missed
something!! or it could it have been the users of these readers that are
missing something?
I know it was all the plane noise in the background. By the way when was
the last time
did a photo shoot? or for that matter when was the last time you posted a
top rate image
of your own? Hmmm I didn't think so..


In the meantime my narrow minded friend I have two words for you and the
letter of the
first word starts with an "F" it is then followed the word OFF!!!

Andrew

Andrew, it matters not to me whether you like or dislike yenc, whether
you can or can not use it to down load pics. The question is, how is
it hurting this ng?

The only "hurt" I see is people who complain and whine because someone
is posting in yenc. What the hell kind of attitude is that? It's
there to be looked at or ignored. It need not be a source of whining.
Open it, ignore it. It is that simply. Why must you whine about it.
You're a spoiled little child talking like that.

And to say eff off to me, well, I ain't goin' anyplace, kid. I'm here
to stay, downing both yenc and non-yenc pictures, both non-pro and
pro. (BTW, if you have down loaded any of Plane's pictures, you will
see that he is a very good photographer. But, how could you possibly
know that unless you down load his yenc files.) d;o)

I have only posted a couple of pictures on this ng - some MiGs I
photographed in Petropavlosk, Kamchatka, Russia while on a fly fishing
exposition. You make it sound like I have to have a PhD in graphic
arts to post anything. I am a lurker, mainly, enjoying every kind of
format posted here. You should try it, kid.

As far as telling you to eff off, that ain't my style, kid. It serves
no purpose to use vulgarities on the internet. Now, if you told that
to me face to face, uhhh, things might be a little different,
dontchaknow. d;o)

Dave
(Who is *positive* that the kid ain't gettin' the message.)

"Andrew-S" I-Still-Hate-Spammers@Sorry-I had-to-leave-for-bit.com wrote in
message ...
You have a PhD and your point is??? Hell 2/3rds of the population in
Washington DC metro area have degrees.

Andrew re-read what was said.
He did not say he had one, even though he may or may not.

What he actually said was;
"You make it sound like I have to have a PhD in graphic
arts to post anything."

On Wed, 01 Aug 2007 08:35:48 GMT, "P50" wrote:


"Andrew-S" I-Still-Hate-Spammers@Sorry-I had-to-leave-for-bit.com wrote in
message ...
You have a PhD and your point is??? Hell 2/3rds of the population in
Washington DC metro area have degrees.

Andrew re-read what was said.
He did not say he had one, even though he may or may not.

What he actually said was;
"You make it sound like I have to have a PhD in graphic
arts to post anything."



buzzer "We have a winner in the balcony, Doctor."

Thank you, P50. I have NO degree. But, my wife does have a PhD in
solid state physics (UNC, Chapel Hill).

I stand corrected...

and you are of course correct..

Andrew

"P50" wrote in message
...

"Andrew-S" I-Still-Hate-Spammers@Sorry-I had-to-leave-for-bit.com wrote
in message ...
You have a PhD and your point is??? Hell 2/3rds of the population in
Washington DC metro area have degrees.

Andrew re-read what was said.
He did not say he had one, even though he may or may not.

What he actually said was;
"You make it sound like I have to have a PhD in graphic
arts to post anything."

On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 02:12:14 -0400, "Andrew-S"
I-Still-Hate-Spammers@Sorry-I had-to-leave-for-bit.com wrote:

You have a PhD and your point is??? Hell 2/3rds of the population in
Washington DC metro area have degrees. Even more impressive is that I think
it is something like only 1 in 6 is actually the degree in the field for
which they where trained. As for your specific graphics training? I work in
a camera shop and I have at least 3 or 4 people a day tell me they either a
pro or they have this or that degree in either graphics or photography. The
more professional ones come in asking for advice or knowing what they want,
it is only later on when they pull out a Black Amex Titanium (as in a real
titanium not plastic card) with their company name on it that you realize
what they are.

Uhh, you need to take a course in reading comprehension, kid. Where
did I say I have a PhD? I have no graphics training. (Twenty years in
the Navy, twenty years as an opto-electronics engineer, ten years as a
high performance driving instructor for cops, but no PhD.) d;o)

Forty-three? So I *was* correct. I have kids older than you.

This thing can end very easily, Andrew: Stop your incessant whining.
It does not become you.

As for the cowardice thingy.... we all say things on the internet that
we would not say if we were face to face with each other. Your
telling me to **** off is an example. I know you wouldn't say that to
me face to face, not because you are a coward, but because I know you
are better than that. You read to much into peoples' words.

Dave
(Who, at 70 and 6"1' (shrinking!), 220 pounds has absolutely NO
interest in fighting anyone. Been there. Done that. Have the
t-shirt.)

Dave,
I will happily stand corrected on the PhD issue and offer my apologies for
that miss-reading... Blame it on the heat of the emotions...

In fairness though you too have misread a few things.. Such as why I am
opposed to yEnc or that even though I dislike using it I am in fact yEnc
capable. A big Part of the reason for my anti-yEnc stance is that this
group is aimed towards Amateurs in both aviation Photography AND the
Newsgroups. Oh and by the way most of the other NON-Porn image groups have
had similar discussions and arguments as this one has at some point in their
respective histories. Why it has reached the levels of intensity that this
one has I can only attribute to the fact that this a male dominated
(frequently ex-military or police) group. And lads who disagree typically
want to puff out their chests and expound their views. The hardest part
though is resisting those urges without feeling or looking like a panzy
(spelling?) showing off his frilly pink underwear in public.

In my opinion given how angry people get about yEnc, it should for moment be
considered a taboo subject for a few weeks in the NG. As in no discussion
of why it is good or bad. No remarks about the whining (and please don't
try to argue that the pro yEnc crowd doesn't whine). No snide remarks about
the abilities associated with this or that reader. Just let the it die as a
subject for the moment... A cooling off period that I think would do the
group a world of good. I am looking at the broader issue which is what it
is hurting the group.

Having said that someone just posted a batch of images in yEnc without the
required yEnc in the subject line. Now then yEnc supporters here is your
chance to enforce your own rules... I fully expect to see all the pro yEnc
names that have engaged the anti-yEnc side when the flaming begins.
Preferable without all the nasty comments regarding those of us who dislike
yEnc...

Now go get him!!!

Andrew









"Dave LaCourse" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 02:12:14 -0400, "Andrew-S"
I-Still-Hate-Spammers@Sorry-I had-to-leave-for-bit.com wrote:

You have a PhD and your point is??? Hell 2/3rds of the population in
Washington DC metro area have degrees. Even more impressive is that I
think
it is something like only 1 in 6 is actually the degree in the field for
which they where trained. As for your specific graphics training? I work
in
a camera shop and I have at least 3 or 4 people a day tell me they either
a
pro or they have this or that degree in either graphics or photography.
The
more professional ones come in asking for advice or knowing what they
want,
it is only later on when they pull out a Black Amex Titanium (as in a
real
titanium not plastic card) with their company name on it that you realize
what they are.

Uhh, you need to take a course in reading comprehension, kid. Where
did I say I have a PhD? I have no graphics training. (Twenty years in
the Navy, twenty years as an opto-electronics engineer, ten years as a
high performance driving instructor for cops, but no PhD.) d;o)

Forty-three? So I *was* correct. I have kids older than you.

This thing can end very easily, Andrew: Stop your incessant whining.
It does not become you.

As for the cowardice thingy.... we all say things on the internet that
we would not say if we were face to face with each other. Your
telling me to **** off is an example. I know you wouldn't say that to
me face to face, not because you are a coward, but because I know you
are better than that. You read to much into peoples' words.

Dave
(Who, at 70 and 6"1' (shrinking!), 220 pounds has absolutely NO
interest in fighting anyone. Been there. Done that. Have the
t-shirt.)

Having said that someone just posted a batch of images in yEnc without the
required yEnc in the subject line. Now then yEnc supporters here is your
chance to enforce your own rules... I fully expect to see all the pro yEnc
names that have engaged the anti-yEnc side when the flaming begins.
Preferable without all the nasty comments regarding those of us who dislike
yEnc...

Now go get him!!!

Andrew


The only "just posted" batch I see is mine, and all are marked "yEnc."
Did I miss a batch?

In article ,
Just Plane Noise wrote:


Having said that someone just posted a batch of images in yEnc without the
required yEnc in the subject line. Now then yEnc supporters here is your
chance to enforce your own rules... I fully expect to see all the pro yEnc
names that have engaged the anti-yEnc side when the flaming begins.
Preferable without all the nasty comments regarding those of us who dislike
yEnc...

Now go get him!!!

Andrew


The only "just posted" batch I see is mine, and all are marked "yEnc."
Did I miss a batch?

Probably you missed it. Some guy was trying to sell some old photos on
ebay. He used yEnc coding without labeling them as such. He has been
taken to task by a number of folks, and rightly so.

BTW, JPN, thanks for all the great images. Sorry Oshkosh is over but I
look forward to your contributions next summer.

Best regards,
Dave W.

snip: Just Plane Noise wrote:
(Having said that someone just posted a batch of images in yEnc without the



I need to know!

I downloaded some stuff that could be yenc. How can I tell if it was?

RK