The Wright Stuff and The Wright Experience

Cub Driver wrote in message . ..
Surely this can easily be proved? Two Me 262s are for sale at this
moment. They are certainly better-built than the originals, with far
better engines. If the original could fly faster than Mach 1, then the
replicas can.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Agreed, but who would want to put their life on the line to prove it?
During WW2 the Germans piloting both the Me-262 and 163 were hitting
the barrier in high speed critical dives. The reason no other
Luftwaffe pilots have come forward to support the WW2 Mach 1 claim is
simple- none returned alive to tell about it.
One of the most famous Me-163 Versuchs machines in testing reached 702
mph in such a dive and barely survived with the Me-163s tail ripped to
shreds. He's very fortunate his a/c didn't explode with the volatile
fuel onboard (which would certainly be the case for those that in
combat did break the barrier and died in the process). Same for the
Me-262 except in Mutke's case his a/c WAS severly damaged with the
wings, engines, and body badly damaged. He himself did not realize the
significance of that flight until Mach flight was better known in the
years after the war. No mystery there...
The USAF is the final authority when it comes to the historical
accuracy of Mach flight and maybe someday will reveal what they
discovered in Germany in 1945 and exactly what was done at Wright
Patterson with the Me-262. But since the truth is still masked by
secrecy (in the name of national security) I don't see this happening
any time soon.

Rob

p.s. there are many cases in WW2 of missing Me-262 and 163 aircraft
that never reached their destination nor returned from combat. Its
easy to just write them off as accidents, shot down, ditched
someplace... but I believe at least a few of these broke the barrier
and their a/c became critically damaged beyond control resulting in
their death. The Luftwaffe simply didnt have the time and resources in
1945 to investigate Mach flight beyond the realization that their jet
and rocket a/c were hitting the barrier on occasion. That's why their
pilots were told specifically not to exceed critical speeds that
threatened their a/c. In combat, this just isn't reasonable and no
doubt many Luftwaffe pilots were forced into high speed dives that
cost them their lives.

The reason no other
Luftwaffe pilots have come forward to support the WW2 Mach 1 claim is
simple- none returned alive to tell about it.

Then who gave the US the "supersonic" info for their pilots manual? (Pssst
- it was engineers working the problem at O'trau.)

One of the most famous Me-163 Versuchs machines in testing reached 702
mph in such a dive and barely survived with the Me-163s tail ripped to
shreds.

Another sterling example of your accuracy, Rob? That particular aircraft was
damaged during a high speed _climb_, not a dive. Getting that sort of detail
wrong makes me believe you are going from memory here, when you should be
quoting from a document or book - try "Top Secret Bird"; it'll help you.

He's very fortunate his a/c didn't explode with the volatile
fuel onboard (which would certainly be the case for those that in
combat did break the barrier and died in the process).

C'mon, Rob - give me the name of ONE Luftwaffe pilot from EKdo 16 or JG 400
that died in the manner you just described. This statement is entirely
fabricated! ROB, NO one died in this manner - unless you can provide names and
circumstances (and I am able to provide corrections, from the German records).
Yer dreamin', dude. Oh, I forgot - in your world, aircraft with 2-foot thick
WOODEN wings and blunt noses are supersonic aircraft.

I am also puzzled about your 'break the barrier in combat' mention. What do
you base it on? Can you provide any examples of ANY aircraft engaging in a
supersonic dogfight?

Same for the
Me-262 except in Mutke's case his a/c WAS severly damaged with the
wings, engines, and body badly damaged.

NO photo - no proof. NO wartime statement by the pilot - no proof. NO
aircraft loss/damaged report - no proof. The "Silber" aircraft were strategic
assets of the Third Reich, not like the litter piles of Bf 109s and Focke Wulfs
that were all over Germany as the war ended: EVERY Me 262 was tracked by higher
authority and each one was haggled over by various units and Flots. To have
lost two (Mutkes + the guy he was supposedly going to rescue) and have neither
of them reported is just not possible. No "White 9" was removed from service
due to damage by JG 7, or any other LW unit, on the day he claims. Or, perhaps
you have some sort of proof that has eluded researchers like Richard Eger,
Manfred Boehme, and others..? Ignore me forever - but it won't change that
dozens of highly experienced pilots and engineers were approached by Mutke
PERSONALLY, and all refused to agree with his position, for the most basic of
reasons: he was wrong. Instead of parroting his website, why not INVESTIGATE
what he claims? Its not rocket science, but I have to warn you, you won't like
what you find.

He himself did not realize the
significance of that flight until Mach flight was better known in the
years after the war. No mystery there...

The mystery is how he could effectively destroy an Me 262 without it being
recorded. See, when they lost one or had one pranged, they had to notify
everyone - I have the page-by-page loss files for those that were dicked up due
to various causes. In fact, the only losses I am missing are the combat losses
(I have quite a few, but definitely not most) -- but the prangs are all in the
massive file (BTW, Rob, you should order it - it wont back up your position in
the least, but it will educate you a bit, with genuine, accurate, wartime
information). Mutke managed to screw up a 262, apparently right in front of
the Old Schoolmaster (Bär), but the instructor seems to have entirely missed
it. ODD, that, considering he was spring-loaded to ground any pilot that
damaged a 262 due to not following instructions. By Mutke's own statement, he
wasn't.

BTW, when you have written to Mutke, what was his reply? Wait, I forgot - you
don't actually research anything, you just accept what you read on the net.

The USAF is the final authority when it comes to the historical
accuracy of Mach flight

Ok.?

and maybe someday will reveal what they
discovered in Germany in 1945 and exactly what was done at Wright
Patterson with the Me-262.

Those files are _not_ closed. Have you EVER visited NARA, NARA II, or Wright
Pat?? Answer: NO.

But since the truth is still masked by
secrecy (in the name of national security) I don't see this happening
any time soon.

Go back to reading LW 46 comics, Rob. When you are interested in reading
original wartime documents, filled with all sorts of fascinating things every
bit as exciting as the warped versions you have accepted as truth, let me know
and I can give you some great file numbers to start with.

Gordon