Biggest bonehead moves flying into OSH?

On Aug 3, 1:04 pm, Hawkeye wrote:
At some point as this event continues to grow, they may have to
implement a 'gateway' system for pilots who are enroute to OSH.
Several satellite locations where pilots must stop to be briefed and
given a card that is visible in the window or ribbon attached to a
tiedown ring showing they made the stop. At this gateway stop they
would be briefed and receive a copy of the NOTAM. Information about
alternate fields in case they arrive when the field was 'closed'.

I know the NOTAM is posted on the AirVenture website and is available
through FAA channels, but I bet many who arrive without ever seeing
one don't use the internet or file a flight plan and get a briefing
about their planned route or destination.



Hello:

Just "right" off the bat that strikes me as a suggestion with some
merit...

again just my first thought after reading it...a landing at a sat
field would be required with some record taken of who did what
(including N numbers) and if one lands at OSH without that briefing
and your N number isnt on the paper (or try to land and this part
might be difficult to enforce but once on the deck it should be
easier) then there are some serious FAA FSDO problems.

IT might be considered like an "airshow" briefing of such.

there are doubtless some problems with your suggestion but it seems on
its face worthy of discussion.

Robert

"Luke Skywalker" wrote

Just "right" off the bat that strikes me as a suggestion with some
merit...

again just my first thought after reading it...a landing at a sat
field would be required with some record taken of who did what
(including N numbers) and if one lands at OSH without that briefing
and your N number isnt on the paper (or try to land and this part
might be difficult to enforce but once on the deck it should be
easier) then there are some serious FAA FSDO problems.

An out landing is not necessary for those who have the NOTAM, and have read
(and understand) it.

The idea of requiring that the NOTAM be on board is what needs to be
enacted, and enforced.
--
Jim in NC

On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 16:35:53 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote:


"Luke Skywalker" wrote

Just "right" off the bat that strikes me as a suggestion with some
merit...

again just my first thought after reading it...a landing at a sat
field would be required with some record taken of who did what
(including N numbers) and if one lands at OSH without that briefing
and your N number isnt on the paper (or try to land and this part
might be difficult to enforce but once on the deck it should be
easier) then there are some serious FAA FSDO problems.

An out landing is not necessary for those who have the NOTAM, and have read
(and understand) it.

The idea of requiring that the NOTAM be on board is what needs to be
enacted, and enforced.

It's not the possession of the NOTAM, nor reading it that counts. It's
the flying in the last few miles that matters.

So how about a panel of judges evaluating everyone's approach and
landing perfomance and assessing appropriate fines?
Just kidding... Just kidding...

I am amazed at some of the suggestions here (this and other threads).
Do we really expect ATC to turn away someone for not knowing the
procedure?

Pilot: Oshkosh tower, experimental 5678X ... uhhh ... approaching the
airport ... uhhh ... from the west. Landing.
ATC: Experimental 5678X, what is the third word in the second
paragraph on page 5 of the NOTAM?
Pilot: Huh?
ATC: Experimental 5678X, fly heading 270 for 30 minutes, then resume
own navigation.
Pilot: But ... but I want to land at OSH.
ATC: Unable.

This is a *show* we're talking about. *EAA* show.
They want everybody there. Including (or especially?) a guy who built
his own plane in the barn and avoids airspace where talking to ATC is
required. He probably doesn't even know that the NOTAM exists and for
him compliance with FAR 91.103 means squinting at the sky.

Having *most* pilots follow the NOTAM keeps things failry orderly and
helps ATC accomodate (within limits) the others.
Seems to be working quite well. 12,000 aircraft landed and took off in
just few days without a major accident.

- Tom

I agree with you Tom that this is a show. However this show continues
to expand in the number of aircraft that attend. What eventually will
happen is a chain of events that result in a fatality accident over
the city of Oshkosh. Years ago a jet crashed into a neighborhood near
the field, this raised concerns about the amount of air traffic. If
two airplanes collide in the pattern and plummet into an area such as
a shopping center, these concerns will have negative effects on EAA.
Add in the number of new inexperienced pilots that will begin to
attend will compound this issue. All we want to see is a better way to
ensure pilots are aware of the procedures to make flying in/out of
this event as safe as possible. If everyone is on the same page,
things will continue to be as safe as they have been. As was discussed
before the show, go out and slow fly your aircraft...know how to do
it! Perfect sense to do especially considering the mix of performance
levels of aircraft and pilots in the pattern. It amazes me how many
color blind pilots there are...blue Cessna land on the green
dot....huh? I learned to fly at a military aero club. The rules then
were you had to have an endorsement to do certain things or go certain
places with the clubs aircraft. Maybe pilots attending need an
endorsement to attend EAA. Something as simple as stopping at
designated fields to review and be briefed on the NOTAM. This is a win
win situation...you get to review the NOTAM and take a potty break
before you get tied up in traffic.

Tom L. wrote:

I am amazed at some of the suggestions here (this and other threads).
Do we really expect ATC to turn away someone for not knowing the
procedure?

Yes. I think exactly that was suggested as a way to make sure the NOTAM is
known and this make OSH safer.

Ad.

On Aug 3, 3:35 pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"Luke Skywalker" wrote

Just "right" off the bat that strikes me as a suggestion with some
merit...

again just my first thought after reading it...a landing at a sat
field would be required with some record taken of who did what
(including N numbers) and if one lands at OSH without that briefing
and your N number isnt on the paper (or try to land and this part
might be difficult to enforce but once on the deck it should be
easier) then there are some serious FAA FSDO problems.

An out landing is not necessary for those who have the NOTAM, and have read
(and understand) it.

The idea of requiring that the NOTAM be on board is what needs to be
enacted, and enforced.
--
Jim in NC

Jim...

That is probably accurate (well I have done it a few times in a lot of
airplanes so If I can read the NOTAM I guess everyone can (LOL)...

Still the above suggestion is an idea worth talking about. I just
came up with another one on my jog...

Having been to OSH in a few years guess I could check the web site...

Does EAA have a "video" on its web site with an example of an arrival?

Robert

On Aug 3, 6:35 pm, Luke Skywalker wrote:
On Aug 3, 3:35 pm, "Morgans" wrote:



"Luke Skywalker" wrote

Just "right" off the bat that strikes me as a suggestion with some
merit...

again just my first thought after reading it...a landing at a sat
field would be required with some record taken of who did what
(including N numbers) and if one lands at OSH without that briefing
and your N number isnt on the paper (or try to land and this part
might be difficult to enforce but once on the deck it should be
easier) then there are some serious FAA FSDO problems.

An out landing is not necessary for those who have the NOTAM, and have read
(and understand) it.

The idea of requiring that the NOTAM be on board is what needs to be
enacted, and enforced.
--
Jim in NC

Jim...

That is probably accurate (well I have done it a few times in a lot of
airplanes so If I can read the NOTAM I guess everyone can (LOL)...

Still the above suggestion is an idea worth talking about. I just
came up with another one on my jog...

Having been to OSH in a few years guess I could check the web site...

Does EAA have a "video" on its web site with an example of an arrival?

Robert

Not that I am aware of. But if they aren't viewing the website, will a
video inspire them to do so.But I like your thinking.

What about sending everyone a DVD with procedures and video on arrival
procedures. They could add other things as well. Like a briefing from
the FAA, NTSB; show schedules, highlights from the previous year.
Charge a token fee to cover postage an production. Or see if a sponsor
will offset the costs allowing them to advertise on it. EAA could do a
mass mailing 30 days prior to the event.

On Aug 3, 8:15 pm, Hawkeye wrote:
On Aug 3, 6:35 pm, Luke Skywalker wrote:





On Aug 3, 3:35 pm, "Morgans" wrote:

"Luke Skywalker" wrote

Just "right" off the bat that strikes me as a suggestion with some
merit...

again just my first thought after reading it...a landing at a sat
field would be required with some record taken of who did what
(including N numbers) and if one lands at OSH without that briefing
and your N number isnt on the paper (or try to land and this part
might be difficult to enforce but once on the deck it should be
easier) then there are some serious FAA FSDO problems.

An out landing is not necessary for those who have the NOTAM, and have read
(and understand) it.

The idea of requiring that the NOTAM be on board is what needs to be
enacted, and enforced.
--
Jim in NC

Jim...

That is probably accurate (well I have done it a few times in a lot of
airplanes so If I can read the NOTAM I guess everyone can (LOL)...

Still the above suggestion is an idea worth talking about. I just
came up with another one on my jog...

Having been to OSH in a few years guess I could check the web site...

Does EAA have a "video" on its web site with an example of an arrival?

Robert

Not that I am aware of. But if they aren't viewing the website, will a
video inspire them to do so.But I like your thinking.

What about sending everyone a DVD with procedures and video on arrival
procedures. They could add other things as well. Like a briefing from
the FAA, NTSB; show schedules, highlights from the previous year.
Charge a token fee to cover postage an production. Or see if a sponsor
will offset the costs allowing them to advertise on it. EAA could do a
mass mailing 30 days prior to the event.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

that is the spirit of what I was thinking of. Why not have something
that is downloadable on the web site that hass all those things and
actually gets out and flies an arrival etc.

That is done all the time in the real world.

I think of OSH like in Part 121 where you have complex special and
complex simple (etc) airports. To go into them you have to have some
pre training and today that is done at most airlines by watching a
video, some you can even get it off the web.

Robert