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On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 00:14:14 -0700, James Sleeman
wrote in . com: On Aug 6, 4:52 am, Larry Dighera wrote: Electrically Powered Ultralight Aircraft It's a nice idea, but realisitically there are too many problems, not the least of which is battery size, weight, cost and safety. I don't really see batteries as a viable in the near future (I struggle to see them as viable in the distant future either). There is a fundamental problem with attempting to power an aircraft with batteries: The propulsion system must not only move the vehicle forward as it would with an automobile, but it must also simultaneously maintain the aircraft's altitude; unlike an automobile that only requires a small amount of energy to overcome rolling and wind resistance once in motion, an aircraft can't coast without losing altitude, so energy demands for powering an aircraft are considerably more demanding than those for an automobile. That said though, I recently saw an article somewhere about an electric car with a stirling engine tucked away in the back (Deam Kamen was in on it somewhere - he's the Segway and fancy wheelchair guy). Are external combustion engines as efficient as internal combustion engines? Stirling engines are great for converting waste heat to mechanical energy, but I'm not sure how appropriate they would be for aircraft propulsion. On the face of it, that seems like not a bad idea for how an electric aircraft could be realistic - take your stirling engine, hook it through a smaller, cheaper, lighter battery system to your electric motor. The battery would act as a buffer (capacitor) to allow for stored energy to do rapid changes in power to the drive motor, the stirling engine would tick away at a constant rate feeding it's generated electricy into the battery. But then, I'm no engineer, I'm sure it's already been discounted as impractical by the real engineers ![]() up so big and heavy to produce the power required that it's useless. The comparative light weight and high energy density of lithium-ion polymer batteries makes them a potential enabling technology for electrically powered aircraft as well as automobiles. All-electric automobiles are entering the marketplace finally: Our customers are a diverse group. All value the sports car performance of zero to 60 mph in about 4 seconds and a top speed of more than 130 mph, but many of our customers are also concerned about the environment. Some, such as customer Stephen Casner, have owned (and still own) older electric vehicles like Toyota's Rav 4. (Read his Tesla Motors blog at: http://cts.vresp.com/c/?TeslaMotors/...4be/9291be675f Early customers include Google Co-Founders Sergey Brin and Larry Page, actor George Clooney, comedian Jay Leno, and California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger. Tesla Motors continues to take reservations for the 2008 model year Tesla Roadster at our website at: http://cts.vresp.com/c/?TeslaMotors/...4be/d99894a034 Tesla Motors is closing out July with another significant milestone reached: We have now accepted more than 560 reservations for the Tesla Roadster toward an anticipated first year production total of 800 cars. http://cts.vresp.com/c/?TeslaMotors/...4be/4ed5aad61f And if this prototype is an indication, all-electric automobiles will no longer suffer from an image of being slow and impractical: http://www.gizmag.com/go/6104/1/ The 640 bhp MINI QED plug-in EV (link to this article) Page: 1 2 September 4, 2006 Q.E.D. is an abbreviation of the Latin phrase "quod erat demonstrandum" which means, "which was to be demonstrated". In simple terms, it indicates that something has been definitively proven. Accordingly, the MINI QED electric hybrid is aptly named as it dispels any doubts about the validity of in-hub electric motors playing their part in the future of the automobile. PML FlightLink designs and manufacture electric motors, EV drive systems, joystick controls and controllers and bespoke motors for specialist applications and the MINI QED was built to showcase their expertise in wheelmotors, with a view to supplying what we expect will be a booming market in electric vehicle applications over coming decades. The result is a MINI with four times the horsepower of a Cooper S, supercar performance and the prospects of some very serious EVs in the near future. The QED is a ripper, using four 120kW (160bhp) wheel motors complete with invertors to convert momentum back into stored energy under brakes. With one on each corner you have Ferrari-like power and very controllable independent drive on all four wheels. In the MINI QED, this package offers a 0-60mph time of 3.7 seconds and a 150mph top speed – supercar territory. An on-board petrol engined generator offers enough electrons to run continuously at motorway speeds without depleting the battery, and you can plug it in at night and commute in full electric mode if you wish. As the invertor can exert more retardation than brakes, the conventional disc brakes have been discarded altogether. The inwheel motors and magnesium alloy wheels, and tyres, have a total mass of 24kg. The original assembly mass on the MINI One was 22.5kg. With so little difference in unsprung mass (the brake hubs and discs have been removed), and full regenerative braking, the ride is claimed to be no different. More importantly, it means dynamic management of up to 750Nm torque at each wheel, (3000Nm total) in either direction, to ensure optimum use of available power. The system can also use steering (driver intent and wheel alignment) and vehicle attitude (gyroscopic sensors read pitch, roll and yaw) as inputs to the traction control and vehicle stability systems. Put simply, the vehicle stability system will be the key, and it will ultimately be the software that determines what the optimum tractive distribution will be at each instant - how the energy stored in the 300V 70Amp Hour (700Amp peak) Lithium Polymer battery is most effectively distributed. ...continued: http://www.pmlflightlink.com/archive/news_mini.html So it would appear that high-performance all-electric automobiles are viable and in fact being produced commercially now. And while there have been some successful electrically powered, unmanned aircraft demonstrated, such as those of Dr. Paul MacCready's AeroVironment: http://www.avinc.com/uav_lab_project_detail.php?id=40 Pathfinder flew to 50,567 feet at Edwards September 12, 1995, its first trip to the stratosphere. From there, it was improved and taken to the Pacific Missile Range Facility (PMRF), Kauai, Hawaii for test flights in 1997, where it flew to 71,504 feet on July 7, before performing a series of science missions over the Hawaiian Islands. http://www.avinc.com/uas_dev_project_detail.php?id=115 Global Observer is the latest development in High Altitude Long Endurance (HALE) UAS, being the first operational configuration able to provide long-dwell stratospheric capability with global range and no latitude restrictions. Global Observer's unique combination of both extreme flight duration and stratospheric operating altitude is designed to deliver advantages in cost, capacity, coverage, flexibility, and reliability that make it a compelling complement to existing satellite, aerial and terrestrial assets. Missions Communications Relay & Remote Sensing Features High-Altitude, Long-Endurance platform (all latitude capability) Endurance/Range Over 1 week/global Payload Up to 400 lbs. for GO-1 & 1,000 lbs for GO-2 Operating Altitude 65,000 feet Expected Availability Within 2 years for U.S. government, with funding There are also manned, commercially produced, electrically powered sailplanes available in the marketplace: http://www.lange-flugzeugbau.de/htm/...tares_20E.html Antares 20E http://lange-flugzeugbau.com/pdf/new...%20issue01.pdf Today Lange Flugzeugbau received the EASA type certification for the Antares 20E. (EASA TCDS No. A.092). This is the first time in the world that an aircraft with an electrical propulsion system receives a type certificate. http://www.nadler.com/public/Antares.html http://www.dg-flugzeugbau.de/elektroflieger-e.html DG-800E the uncompromised Motor glider with Electro-Power? Here's a little history: http://www.solarimpulse.com/the-hist...tion-en20.html Solar aviation began with reduced models in the 1970s, when affordable solar cells appeared on the market. But it was not until 1980 that the first human flights were realised. In the United States, Paul MacCready's team developed the Gossamer Penguin, which opened up the way for the Solar Challenger. This aircraft, with a maximum power of 2.5 kW, succeeded in crossing the Channel in 1981 and in quick succession covered distances of several hundred kilometres with an endurance of several hours. In Europe, during this time, Günter Rochelt was making his first flights with the Solair 1 fitted with 2500 photovoltaic cells, allowing the generation of a maximum power of 2.2kW. In 1990, the American Eric Raymond crossed the United States with Sunseeker in 21 stages over almost two months. The longest lap was 400 kilometres. The Sunseeker was a solar motor bike-sail plane with a smoothness of 30 for a tare weight of 89 kg and was equipped with solar cells of amorphous silicon. In the middle of the 1990s, several airplanes were built to participate in the "Berblinger" competition. The aim was to be able to go up to an altitude of 450m with the aid of batteries and to maintain a horizontal flight with the power of at least 500W/m2 of solar energy, which corresponds to about half of the power emitted by the sun at midday on the equator. The prize was won in 1996 by Professeur Voit-Nitschmann's team of Stuttgart University, with Icare 2 (25 meters wingspan with a surface of 26 m2 of solar cells.) http://www.solarimpulse.com/the-solar-impulse-en5.html And here's a glimpse at the futu http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/...70327e_pr.html MADRID, March 27, 2007 -- In an effort to develop environmentally progressive technologies for aerospace applications, Boeing researchers and industry partners throughout Europe plan to conduct experimental flight tests in 2007 of a manned airplane powered only by a fuel cell and lightweight batteries. The Boeing Fuel Cell Demonstrator Airplane uses a Proton Exchange Membrane (PEM) fuel cell/lithium-ion battery hybrid system to power an electric motor, which is coupled to a conventional propeller. The fuel cell provides all power for the cruise phase of flight. During takeoff and climb, the flight segment that requires the most power, the system draws on lightweight lithium-ion batteries. (Boeing graphic) Photo of Sonex e-flight electric aircraft's electric power plant: http://www.sonexaircraft.com/news/im...light_5947.jpg More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_airplane |
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As the invertor can exert more retardation than brakes, the
conventional disc brakes have been discarded altogether. Oh, boy. Knowing first-hand the reliability of electrical stuff... Dan |
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There is a fundamental problem with attempting to power an aircraft
with batteries: The propulsion system must not only move the vehicle forward as it would with an automobile, but it must also simultaneously maintain the aircraft's altitude; This is significant at low airspeeds. At higher airspeeds overcoming wind resistance takes much more power than maintaining altitude. unlike an automobile that only requires a small amount of energy to overcome rolling and wind resistance once in motion, an aircraft can't coast without losing altitude, It sure can, until it loses speed and stalls. Bartek |
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On Aug 6, 3:16 pm, brtlmj wrote:
There is a fundamental problem with attempting to power an aircraft with batteries: The propulsion system must not only move the vehicle forward as it would with an automobile, but it must also simultaneously maintain the aircraft's altitude; That is why aircraft engines are so powerful and light; they're depended-on to fight gravity as well as wind resistance. Which leads us to the case of airships! They float. They don't have to work to stay at altitude, they just hang there. Their engines don't have to hold them up. But, and it's a big but, since they are so big, they have more wind resistance than airplanes. Since wind resistance is the log, or cube? of wind speed, their hull-speeds are quite limited and their engines remain relatively small as a result. Enter the less-powerful electric motors! Enter solar photo- voltaic cells! The big surface area of airships are ideal for mounting solar arrays. And if you have a cloudy day and don't charge your batteries up to snuff, well, you will not have to go to ground, as in an airplane, because you are afloat in your element and you drift with the breeze for awhile. Words to the wise about the future of flight. High cheers from Allen the airshipman |
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On Sun, 19 Aug 2007 09:53:32 -0700, dirigible designer
wrote in . com: On Aug 6, 3:16 pm, brtlmj wrote: Actually, these are my words from earlier in this message thread. See: Message-ID: . There is a fundamental problem with attempting to power an aircraft with batteries: The propulsion system must not only move the vehicle forward as it would with an automobile, but it must also simultaneously maintain the aircraft's altitude; That is why aircraft engines are so powerful and light; they're depended-on to fight gravity as well as wind resistance. Which leads us to the case of airships! They float. They don't have to work to stay at altitude, they just hang there. Their engines don't have to hold them up. But, and it's a big but, since they are so big, they have more wind resistance than airplanes. Since wind resistance is the log, or cube? of wind speed, their hull-speeds are quite limited and their engines remain relatively small as a result. Enter the less-powerful electric motors! Enter solar photo- voltaic cells! The big surface area of airships are ideal for mounting solar arrays. And if you have a cloudy day and don't charge your batteries up to snuff, well, you will not have to go to ground, as in an airplane, because you are afloat in your element and you drift with the breeze for awhile. Words to the wise about the future of flight. High cheers from Allen the airshipman Thank you for mentioning electrically powered airships. Lighter Than Air craft are excellent candidates for electric power as is evidenced by: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airship In 1883, the first electric-powered flight was made by Gaston Tissandier who fitted a 1-1/2 horsepower Siemens electric motor to an airship. The first fully controllable free-flight was made in a French Army airship, La France, by Charles Renard and Arthur Constantin Krebs in 1884 . The 170 foot long, 66,000 cubic foot airship covered 8 km (5 miles) in 23 minutes with the aid of an 8-1/2 horsepower electric motor. http://missilethreat.com/missiledefe...tem_detail.asp ... In September 2003, the Missile Defense Agency (MDA) and the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) awarded a $40 million development contract to Lockheed Martin to build the High Altitude Airship prototype. Lockheed Martin currently manufactures the Goodyear blimps that can be seen over big sporting events. These blimps are approximately 200 feet long with a volume of 200,000 cubic feet. By contrast, the HAA prototype will be 500 feet long, 160 feet in diameter, with a volume of 5.2 million cubic feet, i.e. more than 25 times the size of the average Goodyear blimp. MDA plans to deploy the HAA at an altitude of 65,000 feet where the air is one-twentieth the density that it is near the ground. One of the biggest challenges facing MDA and Lockheed Martin is how to get the HAA from the ground to its area of deployment, since the helium gas inside will expand more than fifteen times as the blimp rises. To solve this problem, the HAA will be filled mostly with air when it is close to the ground. As it rises, the air inside the blimp will be forced out and helium from five small inner balloons will replace it. This “balloon-within-a-balloon” concept will allow the HAA to maintain its football-like shape throughout all stages of flight. Once deployed, the HAA will generate its own power supply from thin-film photovoltaic solar cells. It will require 10 kilowatts of electricity to run its 4,000-pound radar system. The prototype HAA will include batteries to keep the electricity flowing at night, although the final version will most likely use lightweight fuel cells. Four electrically powered engines will each drive two 30-foot-wide propellers that will provide the blimp’s forward thrust. The propellers will allow the HAA to hover within a mile of its assigned location, thus maintaining its fixed “geostationary” nature. ... http://www.aiaa.org/aerospace/images...es/pdf/LTA.pdf Zeppelin Luftschifftechnik in Germany resorted to a unique method of delivering its NT-07 airship to a Japanese customer. The semirigid air-ship was flown to Italy and, fully inflated, was put on board a BPDockship for the journey to Kobe, Japan. Tail surfaces and forward engines were removed. Zeppelin is leasing another NT-07 to the DeBeers diamond company for two years. It also was delivered by ship, to South Africa. The air-ship will be equipped to examine geological formations in southern African countries. Zeppelin carried 11,000 passengers on sightseeing flights in Germany during 2004. Work is proceeding on the development of the 19-passenger NT-14. First flight is expected in early 2008. Zeppelin has acquired the intellectual property of the defunct CargoLifter organization. This will become part of an LTAinstitute for coordinating activities on scientific and predevelopment levels applicable to all types of airships. It will be headquartered in Friedrichshafen. Japan’s Aerospace Exploration Agency completed its series of eight flights with the above-mentioned 223-ft-long, 370,755-ft, un-manned research airship. The objective of these flights was to verify flight control, operation, and tracking technologies from takeoff to landing. Geostationary flight at 13,000 ft was realized with the aid of electrically powered propellers. Data obtained will be applied to JAXA’s further research into high-altitude airships. Another approach to this subject, a “bal-loon robot,” was investigated by Japan’s National Institute of Advanced Industrial Science and Technology (AIST). A 92-ft-long model carrying a 3-kg payload was launched to an altitude of 55,700 ft. Power for propulsion was supplied by batteries. Data transmission failure prevented verification of station keeping. AIST has built a 43-ft-long nonrigid propelled by cycloidal propellers driven by electricity supplied by batteries. This unmanned airship can be used for aerial observation and monitoring of hazardous areas. http://mae.pennnet.com/Articles/Arti...&KEYWORD=blimp Latest generation of military airships to use solar electric power by J.R. Wilson Peterson AFB, Colo. — The North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) has joined forces with the U.S. Army and other agencies to develop the 21st-century High Altitude Airship to help defend U.S. airspace, control its borders, and possibly provide global surveillance capability to military theater commanders. "It's an old idea with new technology applied," explains U.S. Navy Cmdr. Pat Lyons, chief of ISR and NORAD J-5 Directorate. "This airship is unmanned, untethered, and electric powered. We expect it to be composed of solar cells, a fuel cell, and electrolyzer for nighttime operations." The new airship's command-and-control links most likely will involve satellite communications channels. All of these technologies will probably enable the airship to remain on station for as long as one year, Lyons says. Electric power The airship will be electrically powered — possibly using a hydrogen fuel cell — with DC brushless motors and propellers as the likely propulsion system, although the final design will be up to the contractor; Lyons says there are several other possible concepts for program managers to consider. That includes the number of motors, which also would determine the number of propellers. "The concepts we've seen show speeds up to 100 knots for the objective airship," Lyons explains. "The winds at 70,000 feet are fairly benign; you're above the weather and the jet stream, but occasionally, depending on where you are, they can get up to 100 knots, building for 24 hours, peaking for a day, then diminishing for a day. With a 100-knot airspeed, the airship can remain geostationary," Lyons says. A variety of sensors are being considered for the airship's Advanced Concept Technology Demonstration (ACTD), including a small communications relay. In operation, the vehicle could be used to enable communications 600 or more miles apart, including over a mountain. Currently, ground troops with handheld communications must post a relay unit on a water tower or other tall structure to avoid losing contact in the field. ... Military & Aerospace Electronics August, 2002 Author(s) : J.R. Wilson |
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On Aug 7, 3:39 am, Larry Dighera wrote:
Are external combustion engines as efficient as internal combustion engines? Stirling engines are great for converting waste heat to mechanical energy, but I'm not sure how appropriate they would be for aircraft propulsion. In theory, I think that stirling engines are quite well suited to aircraft, all it needs is a source of "hot" and a source of "cold", the cold is in abundance (stick a heatsink in the wind, higher you go, colder it gets, more power the engine can deliver, directly the opposite of IC), the hot could be provided with any number of combustables (and some oxygen delivery system). I found yesterday after writing my initial post an article about exactly this - http://www.qrmc.com/fourpartstirling.html "Why Aviation Needs the Stirling Engine by Darryl Phillips" from 1993/1994. Given what was said in the article, I'm kind of surprised that nobody has come up with a working protoype actually. |
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James Sleeman wrote:
stick a heatsink in the wind, higher you go, colder it gets, more power the engine can deliver, directly the opposite of IC What I didn't get from the article: Where does the "hot" come from? A fuel burner, probably, which would have the same problems with altitude as an IC engine, wouldn't it? Ad- -- The mail address works, but please notify me via usenet of any mail you send to it, as it has a retention period of just a few hours. |
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On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 18:22:41 -0700, James Sleeman
wrote in .com: On Aug 7, 3:39 am, Larry Dighera wrote: Are external combustion engines as efficient as internal combustion engines? Stirling engines are great for converting waste heat to mechanical energy, but I'm not sure how appropriate they would be for aircraft propulsion. In theory, I think that stirling engines are quite well suited to aircraft, all it needs is a source of "hot" and a source of "cold", the cold is in abundance (stick a heatsink in the wind, higher you go, colder it gets, more power the engine can deliver, directly the opposite of IC), the hot could be provided with any number of combustables (and some oxygen delivery system). I see what you mean. Unfortunately, the highest power requirements of aircraft engines are during the takeoff and climb phases of flight. Power requirements are even greater when the ambient temperature rises resulting in less air density or a higher density altitude. That is when the most power is required for takeoff, but that would be a situation where the Stirling engine would have its minimum power production. I would also like to see a comparison of the efficiencies of IC and EC engines and their relative weight and size per horsepower compared. Unlike electrical motors, that must be constructed with heavy iron, IC and EC engines can be constructed of lighter materials like aluminum, but electrical motors are usually 80% to 95% efficient. With the Stirling aircraft engine there is a requirement for what I would imagine would be a large heat sink or heat exchanger located in the slip stream. The weight of this heat exchanger and its drag penalty must also be considered. I found yesterday after writing my initial post an article about exactly this - http://www.qrmc.com/fourpartstirling.html "Why Aviation Needs the Stirling Engine by Darryl Phillips" from 1993/1994. Given what was said in the article, I'm kind of surprised that nobody has come up with a working protoype actually. The article is interesting; thank you for mentioning it. I am e-mailing a copy of this followup article to the author Darryl Phillips. There might be one advantage to using Sterling external combustion engines for aviation: the use of atomic energy as a fuel source if the weight of the lead shielding were not too great. Imagine an aircraft that effectively never runs out of fuel! There'd be no more fuel exhaustion mishaps. |
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Recently, Larry Dighera posted:
On Mon, 06 Aug 2007 18:22:41 -0700, James Sleeman wrote in .com: On Aug 7, 3:39 am, Larry Dighera wrote: Are external combustion engines as efficient as internal combustion engines? Stirling engines are great for converting waste heat to mechanical energy, but I'm not sure how appropriate they would be for aircraft propulsion. In theory, I think that stirling engines are quite well suited to aircraft, all it needs is a source of "hot" and a source of "cold", the cold is in abundance (stick a heatsink in the wind, higher you go, colder it gets, more power the engine can deliver, directly the opposite of IC), the hot could be provided with any number of combustables (and some oxygen delivery system). I see what you mean. Unfortunately, the highest power requirements of aircraft engines are during the takeoff and climb phases of flight. Power requirements are even greater when the ambient temperature rises resulting in less air density or a higher density altitude. That is when the most power is required for takeoff, but that would be a situation where the Stirling engine would have its minimum power production. If an engine's minimum power production is greater than the power required for takeoff, would it matter? It would seem that if this could be achieved, the operating conditions of the Stirling engine would be mostly understressed. I would also like to see a comparison of the efficiencies of IC and EC engines and their relative weight and size per horsepower compared. Unlike electrical motors, that must be constructed with heavy iron, IC and EC engines can be constructed of lighter materials like aluminum, but electrical motors are usually 80% to 95% efficient. With the Stirling aircraft engine there is a requirement for what I would imagine would be a large heat sink or heat exchanger located in the slip stream. The weight of this heat exchanger and its drag penalty must also be considered. Why couldn't the heat exchanger be an integral part of the airframe? Wings come to mind... ;-) There might be one advantage to using Sterling external combustion engines for aviation: the use of atomic energy as a fuel source if the weight of the lead shielding were not too great. Imagine an aircraft that effectively never runs out of fuel! There'd be no more fuel exhaustion mishaps. One downside would be the hazardous materials that could be dispersed in a crash. I'd like to see a prototype Stirling using conventional fuels before exploring more exotic options. Neil |
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