B-52 Re-engining?

"BUFDRVR" wrote in message
...
No auto-rudder on the 757 when I retired from AA in 1993.

I have no reason to doubt you, just wondering what the hell Boeings
putting out
in their literature. Does anyone with RB-211s have an auto rudder system?

The 757 has an automatic YAW damper, as does the F-4, but the flight control
changes you are describing are a 777 feature. You really need an integrated
flight control computer to justify taking that much authority away from the
operator. A FBW B-52 is cool with me, but it sounds a tad pricey.

"Tarver Engineering" wrote
"BUFDRVR" wrote

No auto-rudder on the 757 when I retired from AA in 1993.

I have no reason to doubt you, just wondering what the hell Boeings
putting out in their literature. Does anyone with RB-211s have an auto
rudder system?

The 757 has an automatic YAW damper, as does the F-4, but the flight control
changes you are describing are a 777 feature. You really need an integrated
flight control computer to justify taking that much authority away from the
operator. A FBW B-52 is cool with me, but it sounds a tad pricey.

I'm pretty sure the KC-135R has an auto-rudder, and it's a FBC (fly-by-cable).

Although I've only been a passenger in one out of Altus, and that was in 89 :-)

"Gene Storey" wrote in message
...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote
"BUFDRVR" wrote

No auto-rudder on the 757 when I retired from AA in 1993.

I have no reason to doubt you, just wondering what the hell Boeings
putting out in their literature. Does anyone with RB-211s have an auto
rudder system?

The 757 has an automatic YAW damper, as does the F-4, but the flight
control
changes you are describing are a 777 feature. You really need an
integrated
flight control computer to justify taking that much authority away from
the
operator. A FBW B-52 is cool with me, but it sounds a tad pricey.

I'm pretty sure the KC-135R has an auto-rudder, and it's a FBC
(fly-by-cable).

That would be expected, but in newer airliners, the operator is not really
supposed to even operate the rudder. That idea is of course only filtering
down to pilots after the
A-300 event at Rockaway. In the 135 the automatic YAW damper was much less
agressive than for the 757.

Although I've only been a passenger in one out of Altus, and that was in
89 :-)

The 757 is also fly by cable.

"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

That would be expected, but in newer airliners, the operator is not really
supposed to even operate the rudder.

Hmmm... Not what Boeing and the FAA say when an engine quits...

In article ,
"Tarver Engineering" wrote:

That would be expected, but in newer airliners, the operator is not
really supposed to even operate the rudder. That idea is of course
only filtering down to pilots after the A-300 event at Rockaway.

Quite a few of them found out about it from the Discovery Channel
(really!).

I think they need better mailing lists.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

"John R Weiss" wrote in message
news:PKsdb.603847$Ho3.118129@sccrnsc03...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

That would be expected, but in newer airliners, the operator is not
really
supposed to even operate the rudder.

Hmmm... Not what Boeing and the FAA say when an engine quits...

Engine failure would be about the only condition where the operators feet
should be pushing those pedals.

"Tarver Engineering" wrote

Engine failure would be about the only condition where the operators feet
should be pushing those pedals.

The only time you shouldn't use the rudder, is when the autopilot is on.

"Gene Storey" wrote in message
...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote

Engine failure would be about the only condition where the operators
feet
should be pushing those pedals.

The only time you shouldn't use the rudder, is when the autopilot is on.

Negatory.

Modern airliner rudders are for the automatic YAW damper to operate. Human
inputs are redundant and often dangerous.

B-58 Hustler History: http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/
-

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...
That would be expected, but in newer airliners, the operator is not
really
supposed to even operate the rudder. That idea is of course only
filtering
down to pilots after the A-300 event at Rockaway.

Not so. The rudder is used to coordinate flight in modern airliners as in
any airplane. It just doesn't take nearly as much with a properly
functioning yaw damper. The pilot flying keeps his feet on the rudder
pedals when hand-flying the aircraft. Rudder is used to deliberately
un-coordinate the aircraft when taking off and landing with a crosswind. I
know some airliners are landed in a crab with a crosswind but most call for
wing low into the wind with opposite rudder for alignment. Even autoland
uses opposite rudder to convert from a crab to a slip, usually at 150' AGL.

The only change after the A-300 event is a re-evaluation of what is meant by
being at or below max maneuvering speed. The old idea that being at or
below that speed allows full control deflection with no restrictions is what
is being questioned.

"Darrell" wrote in message
news:VXGdb.3195$La.2924@fed1read02...
B-58 Hustler History: http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/
-

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...
That would be expected, but in newer airliners, the operator is not
really
supposed to even operate the rudder. That idea is of course only
filtering
down to pilots after the A-300 event at Rockaway.

Not so. The rudder is used to coordinate flight in modern airliners as in
any airplane.

Sorry Darrel, but you are outdated.

It just doesn't take nearly as much with a properly
functioning yaw damper.

Or any at all.

The pilot flying keeps his feet on the rudder
pedals when hand-flying the aircraft.

An unsafe practice, for modern airliners.

Rudder is used to deliberately
un-coordinate the aircraft when taking off and landing with a crosswind.

No, use of the rudder is explicity unsafe.

I
know some airliners are landed in a crab with a crosswind but most call
for
wing low into the wind with opposite rudder for alignment. Even autoland
uses opposite rudder to convert from a crab to a slip, usually at 150'
AGL.

Nice for a DC-9.

The only change after the A-300 event is a re-evaluation of what is meant
by
being at or below max maneuvering speed. The old idea that being at or
below that speed allows full control deflection with no restrictions is
what
is being questioned.

No, there is no question whatsover that the AA pilots were in violation of
that flight rule. What came out of the A-300 acident was both large
transport manufacturers saying pilots should not use the rudder under normal
operations.