How were Have Blue and Tacit Blue codenames chosen?

In article , Cub Driver
wrote:

And how do they name planes?

It seems to be a collaborative effort between the manufacturer and the
air force. Then, after the uniformly awful names are applied, the
pilots and crews name it something else entirely.

It used to be something that the manufacturer did. For example,
North American used the "thunder" series names (Thunderbolt,
Thunderchief, etc); Lockheed used astronomy names (Constellation);
Boeing used terms from the atmosphere (Flying Fortress, Super
Fortress, Strato Fortress, etc).

During WWII, some airplanes were first bought by the Brits, and
the Brits gave them their name. This included the Mustang and
the Lightning.

In the early 50's, there was a scandal about the name of the XP-56.
This was a rear engine airplane that made it to prototype stage
in the late 40's as a fast non-jet airplane to cope with the fast
planes coming out of Germany. The plane was named the Ascender.
It came out that this was a word play on the "ass end engine", or
the Ass-ender. From that point on, the Department of Defense took
over the official naming duty.

Prior to Fighting Bob McNemara taking over the DOD in the early
60's, the DOD pretty much used the names that manufactures suggested.
Starting with Fighting Bob, airplane projects became far more
political, and the names became part of the political game.

Some planes since them remained without names for a long period
of time, such as the F-111, F-117, and B-1. The F-111 was given
its official name only shortly before it was retired. Other programs
are given patriotic names, such as Fighting Falcon and Eagle.

The F-22/23 program started as a flyoff between the YF prototypes before
the winner was awarded contracts for full scale development aircraft.
During the flyoff, the planes used manufactures names, the Thunderchief
II and the Lighting II--designed to bring back memories of great WWII
aircraft. Once a winner was selected, the USAF assigned the name
Raptor to the F-22.

Another unique modern name is the F-14 Tomcat. Grumman has a long
history of building "cat" planes for the US Navy. This includes the
F4F Wildcat, F6F Hellcat, F7F Tigercat, F8F Bearcat, F9F Panther and
Cougar (Panther was straight wing, the Cougar was sweptwing), F10F
Jaguar, and the F11F Tiger. When the F-14 project began, the Deputy
Cheif of Naval Operations of Air, Tom Conolly, was responsible for
the project from the Navy. The F-14 project became known internally
as Tom's Cat. The name stuck, and the official name became the
Tomcat.

-john-

--
================================================== ==================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ==================

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:55:12 -0500, "John A. Weeks III"
wrote:


It used to be something that the manufacturer did. For example,
North American used the "thunder" series names (Thunderbolt,
Thunderchief, etc);

That would of course be Republic.

Lockheed used astronomy names (Constellation);

Lockheed use "Star-xxxx" as in Starfighter or Shooting Star or
Starfire. Close enough to astronomy for government work.

Boeing used terms from the atmosphere (Flying Fortress, Super
Fortress, Strato Fortress, etc).

Like Fortress, Fortress, Fortress?

During WWII, some airplanes were first bought by the Brits, and
the Brits gave them their name. This included the Mustang and
the Lightning.

Lockheed's Lightning (astronomy??) wasn't first bought by the Brits.

Prior to Fighting Bob McNemara taking over the DOD in the early
60's, the DOD pretty much used the names that manufactures suggested.
Starting with Fighting Bob, airplane projects became far more
political, and the names became part of the political game.

Don't think we can attribute that to McNamara. On his watch we got the
F-4 Phantom II, named in the tradition of McDonnell with a
supernatural bent following the Voodoo. And the LTV Corsair II,
following Chance-Vought's Corsair.


The F-22/23 program started as a flyoff between the YF prototypes before
the winner was awarded contracts for full scale development aircraft.
During the flyoff, the planes used manufactures names, the Thunderchief
II and the Lighting II--designed to bring back memories of great WWII
aircraft. Once a winner was selected, the USAF assigned the name
Raptor to the F-22.

While Lockheed did dub the -22 as Lightning II, Northrop tried Black
Widow II on F-23. Neither manufacturer would have weathered the
backlash of trying to call their airplane Thunderchief.

I always suggested, while I was at Northrop that based on its
appearance and the previous carnivorous insect name tradition that the
-23 be called "Mantis".

Another unique modern name is the F-14 Tomcat. Grumman has a long
history of building "cat" planes for the US Navy. This includes the
F4F Wildcat, F6F Hellcat, F7F Tigercat, F8F Bearcat, F9F Panther and
Cougar (Panther was straight wing, the Cougar was sweptwing), F10F
Jaguar, and the F11F Tiger. When the F-14 project began, the Deputy
Cheif of Naval Operations of Air, Tom Conolly, was responsible for
the project from the Navy. The F-14 project became known internally
as Tom's Cat. The name stuck, and the official name became the
Tomcat.

So, if Grumman has a long history of building "cat" named aircraft,
how then is Tomcat "unique"?

In article , Ed Rasimus
wrote:

Another unique modern name is the F-14 Tomcat. Grumman has a long
history of building "cat" planes for the US Navy. This includes the
F4F Wildcat, F6F Hellcat, F7F Tigercat, F8F Bearcat, F9F Panther and
Cougar (Panther was straight wing, the Cougar was sweptwing), F10F
Jaguar, and the F11F Tiger. When the F-14 project began, the Deputy
Cheif of Naval Operations of Air, Tom Conolly, was responsible for
the project from the Navy. The F-14 project became known internally
as Tom's Cat. The name stuck, and the official name became the
Tomcat.

So, if Grumman has a long history of building "cat" named aircraft,
how then is Tomcat "unique"?

The process by which it was named was unique. It ended up with a
name that was essentially an inside joke, in an era where the DOD
normally controlls the names and tries to get political mileage
out of each name.

-john-

--
================================================== ==================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ==================

So, if Grumman has a long history of building "cat" named aircraft,
how then is Tomcat "unique"?

Because it's a *good* name? That certainly is unique in the annals of
postwar U.S. warplanes.

Well, okay: Raptor. I make another exception for Raptor as well.
That's a very good name!

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Cub Driver wrote in message . ..
So, if Grumman has a long history of building "cat" named aircraft,
how then is Tomcat "unique"?

Because it's a *good* name? That certainly is unique in the annals of
postwar U.S. warplanes.

One of the earlier unofficial proposed names was "Alleycat", so I
don't buy the "Tom's Cat" story as "unique". A better substitution is
more likely.

Well, okay: Raptor. I make another exception for Raptor as well.
That's a very good name!

This also started off as "Superstar"- a horrible name. Raptor is more
fitting, but not as a bird of prey... just a dinosaur that should get
a taxpayer extinction.

Rob (being sarcastic on purpose)

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

"John A. Weeks III" wrote in message
...
In article , Cub Driver
wrote:

And how do they name planes?

It seems to be a collaborative effort between the manufacturer and the
air force. Then, after the uniformly awful names are applied, the
pilots and crews name it something else entirely.

It used to be something that the manufacturer did. For example,
North American used the "thunder" series names (Thunderbolt,
Thunderchief, etc); Lockheed used astronomy names (Constellation);
Boeing used terms from the atmosphere (Flying Fortress, Super
Fortress, Strato Fortress, etc).
-john-

Republic Aviation would be really surprised to find out about the "thunder"
series being used by North American.

Tex Houston

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 12:55:12 -0500, "John A. Weeks III"
wrote:

In article , Cub Driver
wrote:

And how do they name planes?

It seems to be a collaborative effort between the manufacturer and the
air force. Then, after the uniformly awful names are applied, the
pilots and crews name it something else entirely.

It used to be something that the manufacturer did. For example,
North American used the "thunder" series names (Thunderbolt,
Thunderchief, etc)

You mean Republic, right?

North American built the Mustang and Twin Mustang. They built a series of Navy
fighters all bearing the name Fury and there was the Sabre and Super Sabre.
I don't think that the XF-107 was ever Christened with a name.

Lockheed originally named there XP-38 the "Atlanta". It was the Brits who
bestowed the name "Lightning". Likewise, the Brits named the P-51"Mustang", as
NAA called it the "Apache".

Grumman built fighters in FAA service received the names "Martlet" and "Gannet",
utterly awful to American ears. They eventually adopted Grumman's names of
Wildcat and Hellcat. Grumman also produced three different aircraft based upon
the same airframe, "Tracker", "Tracer" and "Trader". These being the S2F-1, WF-1
and the TF-1. Later these were re-designated S-2, E-1 and C-1.

The common thread to Boeing bombers was the word "Fortress", not really anything
related to the atmosphere.

As far as I can determine, Only Grumman has adhered to tradition over the long
haul. Republic had the Thunderbolt II (A-10), LVT had the Corsair II (A-7),
McDonnell had the Phantom II (F-4 series) and most recently Lockheed-Martin
offered the Lightning II (F-22). Both the A-10 and F-22 have alternate names
(Warthog, etc) now, and the Phantom and A-7 are essentially history.

My regards,

Widewing (C.C. Jordan)
http://www.worldwar2aviation.com
http://www.netaces.org
http://www.hitechcreations.com

In article , Corey C.
Jordan wrote:

The common thread to Boeing bombers was the word "Fortress", not really
anything related to the atmosphere.

Only the bombers ended up with the Fortress suffix. They also
used suffixes of "lifter" for cargo planes, "tanker" for the
KC-135, and I forget what they called the passenger planes.
Was it the Stratocrusier, or the Stratoliner?

-john-

--
================================================== ==================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ==================

During WWII, some airplanes were first bought by the Brits, and
the Brits gave them their name. This included the Mustang and
the Lightning.

Or more remarkably, the P-40. The RAF called the small-jawed B & C
model the Tomahawk, the large-jawed D etc the Kittyhawk.

This was a double tribute: to the long line of Curtiss Hawk warplanes,
and to two American icons.

The USAAF and Curtiss then tried to play catchup by retroactively
naming all P-40 models as the Warhawk, which to seem has always seemed
to lack something.

Perhaps what we ought to do is hire out the naming of our aircraft to
the RAF (Air Ministry?), which seems to have a knack for it.


all the best -- Dan Ford
email: www.danford.net/letters.htm#9

see the Warbird's Forum at www.warbirdforum.com
and the Piper Cub Forum at www.pipercubforum.com

Or more remarkably, the P-40. The RAF called the small-jawed B & C
model the Tomahawk, the large-jawed D etc the Kittyhawk......

The USAAF and Curtiss then tried to play catchup by retroactively
naming all P-40 models as the Warhawk, which to seem has always seemed
to lack something.

I was a high school kid, aviation nut and prolific model-builder
during WW II.

My recollection is that *at that time*, the U.S. aviation and model
airplane mags called the small-jawed P-40s Tomahawks, the D (and
perhaps E) Kittyhawk, and the F and subsequent models Warhawk. How
long that continued, I don't know; I got out of school, enlisted, and
no longer saw the mags.

vince norris