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B-52 Re-engining?



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 28th 03, 08:50 PM
Darrell
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B-58 Hustler History: http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/
-

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...
That would be expected, but in newer airliners, the operator is not

really
supposed to even operate the rudder. That idea is of course only

filtering
down to pilots after the A-300 event at Rockaway.


Not so. The rudder is used to coordinate flight in modern airliners as in
any airplane. It just doesn't take nearly as much with a properly
functioning yaw damper. The pilot flying keeps his feet on the rudder
pedals when hand-flying the aircraft. Rudder is used to deliberately
un-coordinate the aircraft when taking off and landing with a crosswind. I
know some airliners are landed in a crab with a crosswind but most call for
wing low into the wind with opposite rudder for alignment. Even autoland
uses opposite rudder to convert from a crab to a slip, usually at 150' AGL.

The only change after the A-300 event is a re-evaluation of what is meant by
being at or below max maneuvering speed. The old idea that being at or
below that speed allows full control deflection with no restrictions is what
is being questioned.


  #2  
Old September 28th 03, 10:11 PM
Tarver Engineering
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"Darrell" wrote in message
news:VXGdb.3195$La.2924@fed1read02...
B-58 Hustler History: http://members.cox.net/dschmidt1/
-

"Tarver Engineering" wrote in message
...
That would be expected, but in newer airliners, the operator is not

really
supposed to even operate the rudder. That idea is of course only

filtering
down to pilots after the A-300 event at Rockaway.


Not so. The rudder is used to coordinate flight in modern airliners as in
any airplane.


Sorry Darrel, but you are outdated.

It just doesn't take nearly as much with a properly
functioning yaw damper.


Or any at all.

The pilot flying keeps his feet on the rudder
pedals when hand-flying the aircraft.


An unsafe practice, for modern airliners.

Rudder is used to deliberately
un-coordinate the aircraft when taking off and landing with a crosswind.


No, use of the rudder is explicity unsafe.

I
know some airliners are landed in a crab with a crosswind but most call

for
wing low into the wind with opposite rudder for alignment. Even autoland
uses opposite rudder to convert from a crab to a slip, usually at 150'

AGL.

Nice for a DC-9.

The only change after the A-300 event is a re-evaluation of what is meant

by
being at or below max maneuvering speed. The old idea that being at or
below that speed allows full control deflection with no restrictions is

what
is being questioned.


No, there is no question whatsover that the AA pilots were in violation of
that flight rule. What came out of the A-300 acident was both large
transport manufacturers saying pilots should not use the rudder under normal
operations.


  #3  
Old September 28th 03, 10:59 PM
B2431
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What came out of the A-300 acident was both large
transport manufacturers saying pilots should not use the rudder under normal
operations.


So one doesn't use rudder when doing a manual turn as one does on every other
aircraft made? If AFCS isn't engaged one has to use rudder to control slip in a
turn. Ever heard of the expression "step on the ball?"

Dan, U. S. Air Force, retired

  #4  
Old September 28th 03, 11:21 PM
Tarver Engineering
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"B2431" wrote in message
...
What came out of the A-300 acident was both large
transport manufacturers saying pilots should not use the rudder under

normal
operations.


So one doesn't use rudder when doing a manual turn as one does on every

other
aircraft made?


The YAW damper moves the rudder for the airplane, no human workload is
involved.

If AFCS isn't engaged one has to use rudder to control slip in a
turn. Ever heard of the expression "step on the ball?"


The only way to disable the automatic YAW damper is to pull the circuit
breaker.

Ever heard of a fugoid? This is an F-4 related question, so don't blow it.


  #5  
Old September 29th 03, 12:10 AM
B2431
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The only way to disable the automatic YAW damper is to pull the circuit
breaker.

Ever heard of a fugoid? This is an F-4 related question, so don't blow it.


What does a tendency to manually over control in pitch have tp do with yaw?

Dan, U. S. Air Forve, retired
  #6  
Old September 29th 03, 12:22 AM
Tarver Engineering
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"B2431" wrote in message
...
The only way to disable the automatic YAW damper is to pull the circuit
breaker.

Ever heard of a fugoid? This is an F-4 related question, so don't blow

it.

What does a tendency to manually over control in pitch have tp do with

yaw?

Nope, go look it up.


  #8  
Old September 29th 03, 03:01 AM
John R Weiss
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"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

So one doesn't use rudder when doing a manual turn as one does on every
other aircraft made?


The YAW damper moves the rudder for the airplane, no human workload is
involved.


The yaw damper does move the rudder, but its function is not to keep the ball
centered. Its function is to reduce yaw oscillations around the [normally 0]
slip angle induced by the current airplane trim. Only if there is an active
3-axis autopilot will the rudder be trimmed automatically. There is NO
automatic rudder trim in the 747-400 except during autoland operations below
1500' AGL.

  #9  
Old September 29th 03, 03:15 AM
Tarver Engineering
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"John R Weiss" wrote in message
...
"Tarver Engineering" wrote...

So one doesn't use rudder when doing a manual turn as one does on

every
other aircraft made?


The YAW damper moves the rudder for the airplane, no human workload is
involved.


The yaw damper does move the rudder, but its function is not to keep the

ball
centered. Its function is to reduce yaw oscillations around the [normally

0]
slip angle induced by the current airplane trim.


The YAW damper also co-ordinates turns and cancels fugoids. It is not an
optional thing, except where much vomiting is considered desirable.

Only if there is an active
3-axis autopilot will the rudder be trimmed automatically.


You are as usual, attepting to change the subject, Weiss.

There is NO
automatic rudder trim in the 747-400 except during autoland operations

below
1500' AGL.


The automatic YAW damper is always there on the 747-400.

Please expalin what automatic rudder trim has to do with this discussion.


 




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